The flaw in this argument is that you are claiming determinism based on your knowledge of the coin flip result. However, if you flip a coin and cover it with your hand, isn’t the result also deterministic? You don’t know the result, but the coin does! Substituting the coins knowledge for your knowledge doesn’t make the event deterministic.

I am not 100 percent sure what you are saying here.

Are you saying that any event that takes place, after it takes place, is deterministic, or in the case of the coin are you saying a coin flip is deterministic or none deterministic?

Let's attach a thin shaft to one edge of the coin so it sticks out the side in the same plane as the disk.
Then let's stick the shaft in a portable drill with a battery pack and turn it on so that the coin continuously flips from heads to tails, and back again, etc., etc.
Do you see anything deterministic about the coin in that case?
What about if the battery runs out and the drill chuck stops at a random angle?

 

Schrödinger's cat...

 

Schrödinger's cat...

Yeah? So did it meow or not?

I read something about the other question about if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there did it really fall. The answer they gave was that it did in fact fall because of quantum effects that would have distributed throughout the universe (or at least the planet) and so that would in turn affect something else, i guess similar to the butteryfly effect. That something else could cause something really big to change that would certainly be acknowledged by one or more humans.

 

Hello everyone It is really remarkable and amazing how probabilistic tools can yield completely deterministic limits of the important features of a model.
Our current technology and understanding, it is really difficult to know all the contributing variables involved in certain natural phenomena and it is also very difficult to gather infinitely large and complete data associated with that phenomena. The lak of data can be due to insufficient measurement technologies. For example, there might be some hidden quantum dimensions and particles which cannot be seen or detected with current experimental technology. This can be considered as lack of data about what's happening inside the quantum realm due to the lack of knowledge of hidden variability caused by extra dimensions and particles. The lack of information about air resistance, coin micro-structure, etc might be the hidden variables which make coin toss process random. If we are somehow able to gather enough data and identify all hidden variable involved in probabilistic natural phenomena, I am sure many probabilistic models will manifest themselves as deterministic models.

 

Hello everyone It is really remarkable and amazing how probabilistic tools can yield completely deterministic limits of the important features of a model.
Our current technology and understanding, it is really difficult to know all the contributing variables involved in certain natural phenomena and it is also very difficult to gather infinitely large and complete data associated with that phenomena. The lak of data can be due to insufficient measurement technologies. For example, there might be some hidden quantum dimensions and particles which cannot be seen or detected with current experimental technology. This can be considered as lack of data about what's happening inside the quantum realm due to the lack of knowledge of hidden variability caused by extra dimensions and particles. The lack of information about air resistance, coin micro-structure, etc might be the hidden variables which make coin toss process random. If we are somehow able to gather enough data and identify all hidden variable involved in probabilistic natural phenomena, I am sure many probabilistic models will manifest themselves as deterministic models.

Yeah that is interesting that we use models for various things and we assume that they match the real world good enough to be useful enough. There always seems to be limits to models though but i guess that is life.

A new control method is coming about now though that does not really involve the usual modeling methods and functions and whatnot. I dont know enough about it yet to give a lot of details, but i think the way it goes is that you have a working situation and you just take a LOT of measurements of how the system reacts to various stimuli that will come up in the end application. You take so much data that you can always predict what will happen when the system is used in autonomous mode, so you can predict what the control must be for that given measurement that while before was forced through experiment is now happening by chance in real life. Since you know what is needed for very single possible situation, you basically just need a memory to store the data you have collected via experiment back at the lab. An interesting way to go about it i guess but a little boring for me