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Very helpful reply, thank you.
EVs
- Thread starter crutschow
- Start date
But still the poor paying the rich to drive.
https://jinpengev.en.made-in-china....ectric-Car-Van-Battery-Electric-Vehicles.html
I would simply say, they would be in the western market already if it was a viable product to make and sell for Western export instead of being cheap junk. Even the Russians have limits on the cheap junk they buy.
oh, it would be a crime alright ...
You keep missing my point. I WANT a cheap junker truck that I will drive no farther than a few miles, maybe once a week, at a top speed of 40 MPH, with seats I would not not want to sit in for more than 10 minutes, and has no visual appeal.
But the only thing I can buy is, something you can use daily for your construction business and take cross country vacation trips in luxury and comfort, and is a chick magnet. Any truck I can buy is way more than I need or want.
It’s as if I need a 2N3904 and the only thing I can buy is a $40 300 Amp IGBT.
Yes, you're right, not much US market for a cheap death machine that even Russians are reluctant to buy.. Too many lawyers here that force you to buy something safe for the road to protect you and others on the road. It's a damn shame.
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Yes the government protecting people is is just a load of crap.
We need to get the pollution and those highway deaths back up to where they were before the safety laws.
Too many people in the world anyway.
Yes, the government often is just a load of crap (mainly from incompetence) but not when keeping those dangerous junk trucks/cars from China off the US roads.
I'm all for the government protecting people with climate, safety, etc... rules and mandates that actually improves the climate and safety. That's why we need to mandate all EVs are sold with actual safety and quality (instead of chinese junk with doubious claims) that people can depend on to buy when IMO the technology get's beyond the early adopter era.
Part of the problem there is that by the time you incorporate all of the features that are currently required, you have a lot more than a "bare bones" vehicle. For instance, you MUST have airbags, and a back-up camera, and a tire pressure monitoring system, and traction control, and antilock brakes, and LATCH points for child seats, and electronic stability control. Even if there was a large potential market for a simple car without a bunch of computers in it, that car would be illegal. Then there's a whole slate of systems that may not be required today, but you can bet will be mandated in the not-too-distant future, such as brake assist, forward collision warning, lane departure warning, lane-keeping assist, pedestrian detection, rear cross traffic alert, automatic high beams, active head restraints, driver attention monitor, safe exit system. The list goes on and on and will only continue to grow. As we've seen over and over in the past, someone introduces something (like the third brake light) and, eventually, it becomes mandatory that everyone has to have it. So if you want to design an inexpensive car, you have to be very aware that you are going to have to keep adding more and more features as time goes by.
You then not only have to pay for the actual cost of all of those features, but also recover all of the costs associated with designing, testing, and getting approvals for all of those features. Unless you really think you can sell millions and millions of them, your per units costs will make the result prohibitively expensive for the very customer market you are trying to serve. If you want a simple vehicle at a low cost, you pretty much have to buy an old one and, most likely, restore it.
So, in order to have a “safe” vehicle, I have to have a 12” infotainment screen that is certainly a distraction, a 10 speaker Bose sound system, seats that cost thousands and are more comfortable than anything I sit in outside a vehicle, a cargo capacity three times what I need, and a battery that can take me 10 tines the distance I will ever use? Do you think these things are free? Oh, and a top speed that is 30-60 MPH higher than any legal speed on the roads I drive. That is certainly necessary for safety.Yes, you're right, not much US market for a cheap death machine that even Russians are reluctant to buy.. Too many lawyers here that force you to buy something safe for the road to protect you and others on the road. It's a damn shame.
I never said I wanted an existing Chinese car that does not meet US safety standards. That was your misinterpretation.
You need to be a bit realistic here -- are you really saying that someone should design a new vehicle that, off the assembly line, is something that people won't want to sit in for more than ten minutes or drive more than 40 mph or go further than a few miles maybe once a week?
If you want a cheap junker truck for the use you describe, why do you want it to be a new truck? Buy a cheap junker truck. When I needed to set up a snow plow when I moved onto the mountain, I didn't go buy a new truck. I bought a 1988 Ford F-250 for $2700 and, fifteen years later, still have and use it much as you describe. It gets driven a couple hundred miles a year and for several years never left the mountain at all. The cost of new trucks was completely immaterial to me because my intended use was incompatible with what any reasonable expectation of what a new truck should be like.
No, nor do I think I should have to pay for way more than I need. Do you think the Chinese cannot make a profit making things you think are junk? Someone is buying them. What I don’t want is for my government to protect US auto makers to my detriment.
...with all the "soft buttons" (graphical touch screen) that you have to visually search for in multi-level menus while navigating in congested traffic.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...illion-on-four-ev-factories-in-north-america/
The charging network is and seems, will remain for a while the biggest pain point and user limiting factor.
Certainly it will have to expand along with the number of EV's.
Where I live in Denver and the surrounding area, that's not a present problem, even for long trips.
But I suspect that is not much different from the expansion of gas stations with the rapid increase in IC vehicles when Henry started mass producing his Model T.
It's different. Those stations were built in a free market with private capital because there was a profit to be made.
Not so much, EVs.
True to a point. The infrastructure needed for old gas stations is simple. A guy with a good arm that could crank a fluid pump to supply gas (as waste product of refining kerosene for mainly lighting), buried in the ground, filled by gravity from a truck once a week or two.
You could spend a million on a EV station but it's useless without extensive grid-scale EV electrical generation from somewhere that will cost billions for a typical mid-sized city. We have huge upfront expansion costs for a general charging infrastructure even if we had the electrical generation capacity, which we don't.
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True.
But that's only a small part of the infrastructure required.
There was also a substantial cost for the wells to provide the oil, the refineries to refine the gas, and the transportation of the gas to the stations.
There were probably naysayers about that also.
You don't think all that development is feasible.
I do.
We'll see who is right.
Sure but that's how it started
No, I don't think that, that's only your, IMO, wrong option. It's all feasible but will be damn expensive and take a lot longer than the EV deadlines that are already being pushed back by the reality of manufacturing, financing and construction.
We need to be honest and say there will be pain during this conversion. It won't be cheap, easy, or even very convenient in the near future.
