There is a HUGE flaw with a camera which is that you need to have somebody watching the image who is able to recognize the folks that they see, OR you need to have a camera and recorder with adequate resolution to record useful images of people. And just a very brief shot of spray paint and the camera is blind.
My situation is that the building is a church that is active in community service, which means that in addition to the members we also have 11AA meetings going on every week, an NA meeting, a Spenders Anoninous meeting, a quilting group meeting, and a Cub Scout pack meeting, in addition to the meetings of church groups for church activities.
There are two kinds of problems, first, people staying in the building sleeping all night and then scaring the secretary when she arrives, and second, a few people stealing things. Stealing toilet paper was inconvenient but ripping off our video projectors was worse. Also occasionally money would vanish.
Locks help by slowing the punks just in a hurry to steal something, and a good lock will make a lot of people a bit more honest.
The idea was for a keypad entry system so that each group could only get in during the times that they were supposed to be getting in. AND all attempts would be recorded so that some record would be available. I am good at hardware but not at high level programming in any current language. I was quite good with TBOSS, a compiled test control language dead for 20 years now.
It sounds a bit like the TS has a somewhat similar situation. Or maybe it is a fraternity house.

 

There is a HUGE flaw with a camera which is that you need to have somebody watching the image who is able to recognize the folks that they see, OR you need to have a camera and recorder with adequate resolution to record useful images of people

It's called a high resolution camera and a computer placed high enough that you can't reach it easily or shield or cover over it to protect it. Camera's are probably less than the locks I've seen posted in this thread. last time I had to buy a lock for my house I think it was around $50.00 for a cheap one. I wouldn't doubt some of them locks are in the hundreds and you can buy a decent camera for about $70 -$100 and he probably already has a computer just sitting around "even I do" to use for recording and playback. Place one at the entrance and one on the area now you have both covered. The one at the entrance would catch them coming in even if they planned to spray paint it and then this is called "vandalism" on top of the theft charges.
Now you use "group of people" in the scenario and again you have a he said, she said thing. The old "Well it wasn't me".
In other words a lock can't tell you who the thief is, A camera can.
Still think the time clock is a better idea and could probably be programmed to even open the door with an electric lock. But now your looking at several hundred dollars.

 

That lock you showed as a candidate might just do, I need to take a look at it.

I also find it strange, that finding something like this seems like an impossible task. I would imagine it might be because you are asking street lamp lightermen to build you an electric street lamp. But at the same time, by installing automated systems they could employ less people to watch over more property, and thus making their services cheaper, and thus beating competition.

There is wireless internet service available pretty much everywhere, so if one could build a wifi lock, with a log system that would send information to a cloud service every time someone logs in via keycard or code, I would pretty much buy that immediately. I've dabbled in coding, but not electronics, but I would imagine making a simple system like this is far from difficult.

 

Check this out, Up to 3000 Users, 48 doors and uses a cloud. https://www.doorking.com/telephone/telephone-accessories/software-remote-account-manager

 

Check this out, Up to 3000 Users, 48 doors and uses a cloud. https://www.doorking.com/telephone/telephone-accessories/software-remote-account-manager

My impression is that the situation of the thread starter is similar to my situation, which is mostly volunteers doing mostly everything and in addition a rather small budget. The funny thing about key card systems is that the cards cost quite a bit and the readers always seem to need regular service. But the biggest flaw is that nobody will even discuss just selling the hardware, only installing it. And I have seen the work of quite a few installers and mostly it is either shabby and ugly or else very expensive, or, most often, both ugly and expensive. Yes, there are a very few that do good work, they are even more expensive. And still the issue of the seller only doing any service remains.

 

Coincidentally, I am in the process of doing exactly what I proposed above for a Makerspace. I will write this up when completed.

Unfortunately for the TS, it requires a computer to host and log the database.
I do not have cloud based database planned in the works.

 

At work we had an RFID system by Honeywell installed. The cards were large PCB. Access info was on a CASSETTE tape. It had a Hazeltine 1500 terminal that a Heath Z-29 would not emulate well. Printer.

The reader part and the lack part was really good. You needed a coax cable for the lock and a cable for the strike. It was set up for two entry doors and one internal door (Machine shop).

Issues were the cassette mechanism and you need a "master cassette" somewhere to really be able to recover. I wasn't ALLOWED to try to fix that problem. I did have the suggested cassette and manual. I was nano-managed.

For various purposes, the center mullion had to be removed that contained the strike. That wiring had to be fixed so it was removeable. I do remember a Cinch connector, but I don;t remember what I used in the end. Messy installation broke a lock circuit. We used 3, there were 4, so one left.

One day the shop lock would not work The reader fell behind the wall.

 

The only problem is that the vast majority of people are neither thieves nor the victims of one, so they need to be taken into consideration as well.

No, they don't.

And in fact, doing so defeats the purpose of the project. Security and convenience is a zero-sum game. By definition, effective security is inconvenient, obtrusive, possibly intrusive, and always accusatory. Get over it, because your people will get over it. No matter what the security system is, people will adapt to it in a few days and get on with their lives.

Cred: My company built secure storage cabinets for high value assets in military maintenance hangars. ID card reader plus manual entry of a 12 character pin for *both* withdrawal *and return*. WAY inconvenient, but very effective. When some laptops were found to have missing hard drives, all of the drives were recovered within 24 hours.

ak

 

No, they don't.

And in fact, doing so defeats the purpose of the project. Security and convenience is a zero-sum game. By definition, effective security is inconvenient, obtrusive, possibly intrusive, and always accusatory. Get over it, because your people will get over it. No matter what the security system is, people will adapt to it in a few days and get on with their lives.

Cred: My company built secure storage cabinets for high value assets in military maintenance hangars. ID card reader plus manual entry of a 12 character pin for *both* withdrawal *and return*. WAY inconvenient, but very effective. When some laptops were found to have missing hard drives, all of the drives were recovered within 24 hours.

ak

The control that is available in a military installation is at least many orders of magnitude greater than what is available in a non-business building of a non-profit organization with volunteer help. That is just totally a different world, and in that world convenience and consideration DO MATTER! Also, in most military installations there is a chain of command and almost always somebody who outranks everybody else, and orders are given where there is NO CHOICE but to obey them.

 

My workday began with me using my RFID badge to go through a one way turn style to gain access to the outside area. Then again my RFID badge was used to enter my building or any other building I was authorized to be in on the grounds. Every door I passed through my presence was logged with a date / time stamp. More secure and classified areas necessitated use of my badge and entry of a nine digit code which we had to change every 30 days while it was a PITA but we had to meet certain security requirements and we did. The security administrator could instantly tell you every entry and exit I did on any given day. Following a week they could tell you more about my day to day movements than I could remember.

Now obviously you do not need this sort of security measures but only you can decide exactly what will work for you. It can be as simple and low security as a simple cipher lock where the code is changed every now and then or a simple mechanical combination lock with the combination only given to those who have a need which is very low and very inexpensive to a more elaborate system like those I mentioned. Data logging is simple but you need to actually define what you want including a plan for power failure. There is no shortage of turn key off the shelf solutions as well as roll your own solutions.

Ron

 

Opening is just one part of the process.

The other is to escape before police shows up.

 

I have bought an electronic lock. Here is the electronic instruction when I bought they sent to me. You can have a look. I hope that can help you.

What you have is an interesting electronic lock with a lot of handy functions, but not the ones that I require. My application requires that each password have only a certain time of day and day of week when it works, and that adding passwords and requirements can be changed through an Ethernet connection. It needs to be able to allow a lot of folks into the building, but only for their group's activities. And my application also requires logging all uses and attempts with time and date.
BUT thanks for sharing the information about a very interesting product.

 

Sorry I didn't help. Hope you can get the correct lock soon.

I certainly appreciate you talking the effort to post a link describing what you have obtained. If it had been everything I required I would be VERY HAPPY indeed. So thanks again for taking the effort to share.
Presently I am considering using a cheap PLC package from Automation Direct, If it can provide the ethernet communications that are required. Their products are good enough and also cheap enough, and the programming software is free. And since I am OK doing ladder logic the whole thing should work, if they have the specific communications capability that I need.

 

I certainly appreciate you talking the effort to post a link describing what you have obtained. If it had been everything I required I would be VERY HAPPY indeed. So thanks again for taking the effort to share.
Presently I am considering using a cheap PLC package from Automation Direct, If it can provide the ethernet communications that are required. Their products are good enough and also cheap enough, and the programming software is free. And since I am OK doing ladder logic the whole thing should work, if they have the specific communications capability that I need.

If I were you I would start with a clean blank sheet of paper and a pencil with a large eraser. That's how most of my projects started out. How did you want the user to interface with the system? Like for example an RFID card, a Bar Coded Card, some other form of card the user has? Depending on the number of users they will likely need to be placed in a database of sorts and the data base needs to go somewhere. Been well over a decade since I used or programmed a PLC but do they allow a data base storage? Since you want to date & time stamp who comes and goes and limit the times access is available I would lean more towards a data logger type system than PLC but purely your call. I am figuring you plan to write the code since this will be tailored to your needs.

Ron

 

The other is to escape before police shows up.

Outsmarting K-9 dogs is much worse. Don't ask.

 

If I were you I would start with a clean blank sheet of paper and a pencil with a large eraser. That's how most of my projects started out. How did you want the user to interface with the system? Like for example an RFID card, a Bar Coded Card, some other form of card the user has? Depending on the number of users they will likely need to be placed in a database of sorts and the data base needs to go somewhere. Been well over a decade since I used or programmed a PLC but do they allow a data base storage? Since you want to date & time stamp who comes and goes and limit the times access is available I would lean more towards a data logger type system than PLC but purely your call. I am figuring you plan to write the code since this will be tailored to your needs.

Ron

I already have the system well defined, the input will be a numerical keypad with two extra keys, enter and reset, and probably two or three indicators, ready, error, and unlocked. One unlock output, which will be a few seconds contact closure. The ethernet comm port will accept a spreadsheet input of the data table that includes the pass code, times, and days that a password will work. probably sent as comma separated variables. The memory will save all entries with a time and date attached, and an indication of valid or not valid. It may also record each time that the door was opened with a key. So there you have the functionality described. NO cards and no card reader.

 

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Ron

 

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Ron

The whole system seems to be a bit similar to the ones at those storage facilities, where you each have a unique pass code that only gets you in during certain hours, and on days when they are open. So I got hold of one of those companies that put the system into a storage place that I had to visit. They would be happy to install and mainain a system but no way would they consider selling any parts, not for any price. In fact none of the companies that provide such systems are interested in selling, only installing and maintaining them. So after I finally creat a system I will publish the plans so that others can compete.