Hello!

I am looking for a single electronic lock that could hold at least 250 4-8 digit codes, and that would log any user that uses one of those codes. I have been googling for a while but it's difficult to find any suitable forums for such a topic.

Thanks for any replies!

 

I suspect that it would be difficult to find a single lock that does that.
What you need is a computerized electronic entry system.

If I were to do this, here is what I would do.
Purchase an electronic dead-bolt lock from any hardware store. Modify it so that you can activate the internal motor from a PC. Something like this:

Mount a separate iButton reader somewhere near the lock.

Read the iButton ID into a PC database, validate the entry, unlock the door and log the event.

Or you can get a commercial iButton lock:

https://www.buyasafe.com/Eternity-IV-Heavy-Duty-Electronic-Keypad-iButton-p/eternity-iv.htm

 

Why not use a normal RFID card system?

 

I think it might help to know these two additional things:

I know nothing of these lock systems, but I am more than ready to learn what is necessary. Second, the usage of this system:

I would need a lock of this type for a room, used by at least 100 people semi regularly. A code would be the best solution, since that way one would only need to distribute personal codes to people entering the room, rather than physical keys, though having keys is not impossible either. I checked the pricing of some of these keys online and it seemed you could get 100 electronic keys for really cheap, but I wasn't sure if each key contained a separate ID on them to log.

The reason for this ID logging is, that people have reported some of their items going missing from said room, and it would be imperative to know who has entered the room using what code or key, and at what time.

The best solution would be, if everyone had a personal 4-8 digit code, and the lock would send logging information with ID information to a cloud service, which could be accessed using a computer. There is no option to have a computer in or directly near the room, and thus the information would most likely have to be sent wireless to a logging system (a computer or a cloud service) at a rather long distance.

I understand there are actual security systems that could do this, but this would have to be as simple as possible, and handled internally, rather than using an actual security company.

One additional piece of information that might be useful is, that at this time, the room can be accessed by anyone with a general key to the complex. This means that people without the need for said room, can still access it, and there is no possible clue as to who has or has not been in said room.

 

Why Not just watch them steal it
$169.00
https://www.amazon.com/Ring-8VR1S7-0EU0-Video-Doorbell-2/dp/B072QLXK2T

They also have a $99.00 model
https://www.amazon.com/Ring-Wi-Fi-E...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583589101920162&psc=1

Edit: Or why not a security camera?

 

In my opinion, a personal code is a nuisance. One is likely to forget one's code among the many other codes one has to keep in memory.
Also, what is to prevent someone giving out his/her code to another person?

An iButton stays on you physically on a keychain. Arguably, the way to go is with a RFID smart card or NF communications on a smartphone.

Maxim DS1990R-F3 costs about US$2.40 each in 100 qty.
Each iButton has a unique ID number. When you initially issue an iButton to the user, you tag the ID to the user in the database.
Not having some kind of computer in the room would be an issue.

 

When I was young my Dad told me locks are for "Honest" people.
Someone could still break in and take what they want and your lock becomes useless.

 

Cameras have that intrusive feeling to them, and in this case it would matter.

Someone can always break a lock of course, but it takes a certain amount of determination to do that, and in this case, if someone would be that determined, it would become a whole different issue.

An open door is easier to open than a locked door. Just like it's better to bring a gun to a gun fight rather than a knife. I personally have dabbled in lock picking, and it really does make the whole affair a lot harder if a door does have a lock, even if someone could potentially pick it eventually.

But to reply to the actual suggestion:

A computer is indeed a problem, since there is no secure place to put said computer. I would imagine eventually the whole computer would get taken

I will look into the RFID system. Some more info on the practicalities, functions, and necessities of such a system would be appreciated, since information on these systems seem vague at best online.

EDIT: And I think you're right about the code. A key system with ID's is definitely a better idea.

 

Look at access control systems. 250 users is a little more difficult to manage. programming from the keypad just as difficult. here is a 120 user system, but probably not what you want.

In many cases, access control might use a maglock or programmable door strike. Door strike battery back-up power supplies may have optional inputs for fire alarm that opens the locks. Egress might have a motion detector on the inside that releases the lock. Some have the ability to integrate "door prop".

Others might have a one-way type system. You have to use a card to get in and out or your locked in the other direction. if you don;t use the keypad or whatever, your picture is taken.

Keypads might use a Weiland code that goes to the access controller.

it almost looks like you want something that looks at both directions. In an emergency any user can exit with or without using the access control system. Then what if two people enter or exit the door at the same time?

there is RFID cards and the iButton technology. As suggested, each iButton is programmed with a UNIQUE serial number.
Back in the 80's my building used a cassette tape based RFID card made by Honeywell. Access info just got printed to a printer. Nothing fancy.
Now, there is bluetooth based cell phone technology. Just being close opens the lock.

You might need a commercial integrator with a BMS (Building Management System).

 

Cameras have that intrusive feeling to them, and in this case it would matter.

Soooo Your worried about hurting someones feelings that are a thief.

A computer is indeed a problem, since there is no secure place to put said computer. I would imagine eventually the whole computer would get taken

A lot of camera's are Wifi/internet so you don't need a computer "on site". It can be transmitted to your home computer or phone.
I'm sure you or the people that had the items stolen would like to find out who the person responsible for the theft is right ?

 

I'll take a look at ACS. I think the 250 is the absolute max that would be needed, less could also work I'd imagine, if one household has only one code etc. Thanks for these replies, it's a lot to take in for someone not at all familiar with these systems, but after I've looked into them I'll come and ask more advice I'm sure. Thank you everyone!

P.S Other people, than the thief will be entering and staying in this area every day, multiple times. If the camera could turn on when the thief comes in, but not when the rest come in, then it would work, but I don't think that technology exists, yet.

But a camera will definitely be an option on the table if all else fails. It is a simple means of checking time stamps and what the people look like. But like said, it has that feel to it that doesn't work in this particular situation that well.

 

P.S Other people, than the thief will be entering and staying in this area every day, multiple times. If the camera could turn on when the thief comes in, but not when the rest come in, then it would work, but I don't think that technology exists, yet.

But you don't know which one "IS" the thief .
If I were one of these people that were being stolen from I wouldn't mind a camera to find out who it really was. Just saying.
And cool name it was my Dads middle name.

 

When I was young my Dad told me locks are for "Honest" people.
Someone could still break in and take what they want and your lock becomes useless.

My father said the same thing. I never used my skils for illicit purposes, but I did learn to crack simple left-right-left combinations. It would take me about 20 minutes. I learned to make master keys. More importantly, I learned to guess codes.

A student wanted to print copies of his thesis and our copier turned off in the evening. I figured out the master code and he copied his thesis,,

We had a storeroom which was open during the day. You just signed an item out with an account number. I had a way in when it was locked. My boss knew I had a way in. My rule: No one could see how I did it; don;t tell the business office; sign out the items "in the morning". The storeroom also had gas cylinders for lab experiments, so i often let people get them after hours.

My mom's friend's husband died and the son was a millionaire and he had a safe that the wife did not know the combo. the son could not get anyone to open the safe, 20 minutes later and it was opened. It takes me a little longer to actually get the combination. Opening is just one part of the process.

 

But you don't know which one "IS" the thief .
If I were one of these people that were being stolen from I wouldn't mind a camera to find out who it really was. Just saying.
And cool name it was my Dads middle name.

The only problem is that the vast majority of people are neither thieves nor the victims of one, so they need to be taken into consideration as well. This area could be deemed a little sensitive to having a camera, which is why a visitor log system would be the priority defense. Any system that could forcibly log visitors would work though, so any ideas are welcome.

Another problem is that I am not directly responsible for this area, and the one(s) who are, have not kept records. There is a pen and paper logging in system in this area, that is mandatory and serves it's purpose (reserving the use of certain faculties), so looking at old records, and the times some items have gone missing might reveal a pattern, but since the records only go back a week, there's not enough data, and losing a few hundred bucks worth of items for another 6 months or so is not optimal. Also, due to the fact that right now pretty much anyone and their grandmother can enter the area, all of that would only be speculation, and would only give possible clues as who the culprit or culprits are. They'd still have to have their opportunities eliminated or they'd have to get caught in the act.

 

The only problem is that the vast majority of people are neither thieves nor the victims of one, so they need to be taken into consideration as well. This area could be deemed a little sensitive to having a camera, which is why a visitor log system would be the priority defense.

Sorry and I'm not implying anything when I say this "But" there are only three reasons why I can think of someone would not want a camera placed to catch someone that's stealing. Sex, Drugs or a Nudist Colony! Now this is just my opinion. You are very vague about what this area actually "IS"! And it seems an awful lot of people use this or these few areas.
Cards can be stolen or borrowed, keys can be replicated, Pins can be gave out to someone who shouldn't have it.
Camera's Don't lie.

 

A candidate: https://www.alarmlock.com/products/mortise-pin/

A source for it with lowish prices: https://www.americanlocksets.com/al...l-lock-satin-chrome-special-price-p-3142.html

 

I have been requesting bids on a very similar system for over a year. I have seen a system that is almost exactly what I want, it controls the entrance gate to a storage place, and every renter has their own code. The problem that I found is that nobody wants to sell such a system! They want to install it the easiest way that they can and then charge a large monthly service fee. I have had lots of sources tell me that I need a card access system, not a keypad system. And some folks just refuse to even provide a rational proposal.
What I have learned is that a suitable lock will run on a computer with a remote numeric keypad, and it will send out a print command on a parallel port when it saves an entry to the list of successful password entries. Then it is a very simple matter to take the print command line and use it to operate a relay to release the electric lock.
Probably the entire system can run on a cheap PLC device like one from Automation Direct. But my application needs to have passwords and user access times downloadable via ethernet, making it a lot more complex.
But if you can find a company that will sell you one like is used for the storage facilities you will have what you asked for. Then let me know and I will buy one from them also.

 

I have been requesting bids on a very similar system for over a year.

Soooo none of you find it kinda strange that he won't tell us what this facility / area is
Even with a storage place I can't see the problem with installing a camera. He keeps saying that it's like the "one" person doing this.
How does He know ? It might be two, three or even four people stealing. With all the people he talks about using this so called "AREA" wouldn't it be better for the people losing their items to know ?
Just saying

 

I have been requesting bids on a very similar system for over a year. I have seen a system that is almost exactly what I want, it controls the entrance gate to a storage place, and every renter has their own code. The problem that I found is that nobody wants to sell such a system! They want to install it the easiest way that they can and then charge a large monthly service fee. I have had lots of sources tell me that I need a card access system, not a keypad system. And some folks just refuse to even provide a rational proposal.
What I have learned is that a suitable lock will run on a computer with a remote numeric keypad, and it will send out a print command on a parallel port when it saves an entry to the list of successful password entries. Then it is a very simple matter to take the print command line and use it to operate a relay to release the electric lock.
Probably the entire system can run on a cheap PLC device like one from Automation Direct. But my application needs to have passwords and user access times downloadable via ethernet, making it a lot more complex.
But if you can find a company that will sell you one like is used for the storage facilities you will have what you asked for. Then let me know and I will buy one from them also.

It seems to me that you have found a business opportunity...

 

My last job had a time clock that you had to swipe a card then enter your pin and even place your thumb on it to get clocked in.
Maybe he should just look at time clocks.
It kept up with everything.
Time in, timeout, hours, who you are, etc.
Still it's not going to tell you who the thief is!
If 10 people use it that day so now you know it's one or two or three of those 10 and their all going to deny it.