Not sure what you're asking. The angle irons clamp to what HP is calling the rail, in the second picture.

The "jack screws", the ones with the wing nuts, straddle the rails. The person doing this would only turn those screws like 1/4 to 1/2 turn at a time, alternately, until the joint is defeated. The jack screws being 1/4-20, move 0.05"per full turn. So that makes 1/4 turn move 0.0125". Like most things 'mechanical' it takes finesse, not brute force.

 

@shortbus So first HUGE thanks for friendly, helpful reply!

Ok I'm sry cuz of causing confusion by calling _jack screws_ _puller bolts_ So I totally agree that _jack screws_ is better name cuz when u think on it they put tension on core legs by putting themselves under compression

So here's how I understand it based on drawings and descriptions so plz correct it if there's still something I'm not getting:

◊So each clamp is two pieces of L stock which are 1" longer than length of core rail+2*length of core leg girth?

◊Each clamp is secured to its core piece by compression from two bolts. One near outside end of upper core leg and one near outside end of lower core leg?

◊Jack screw boltholes are positioned as close to level of bottom of tire as possible w/o interference with jack screws by tire?

◊Each jack screw threads through clip-nut attached at jack screw bolthole drilled in clamp flange perpendicular to core rail apposition surface?

◊ Riving force is caused by jack screws pressing clamp flanges and so core pieces apart?

Shortbus if all I said b4 here is correct here's question:

So say we want to separate both joints (which I'm just calling top joint and bottom joint) with puller simultaneously. Also plz just assume jack screws are totally kept in sync.

Now definite problem that would come up is one joint would yield faster than other so then component of force would be moment putting gap surfaces out of parallel with each other which can cause huge uneven stresses!

So question is can u think of practical way of automatically making size of top and bottom gaps exactly track each other while pieces are being drawn apart? Cuz simplest way I can think of is by using a second pair of jack screws to keep rails parallel which is prolly way more complicated than needed

 

So say we want to separate both joints (which I'm just calling top joint and bottom joint) with puller simultaneously. Also plz just assume jack screws are totally kept in sync.

Now definite problem that would come up is one joint would yield faster than other so then component of force would be moment putting gap surfaces out of parallel with each other which can cause huge uneven stresses!

So question is can u think of practical way of automatically making size of top and bottom gaps exactly track each other while pieces are being drawn apart? Cuz simplest way I can think of is by using a second pair of jack screws to keep rails parallel which is prolly way more complicated than needed

Since the jack screws (the well known industry standard term for this type of screw) are centered in the angle iron clamped to the rails they will move both joints at the same time. If one joint separates first it will still stay in the same plane as the other.

You are free to come up with your own way of doing this, since you keep expressing doubts in mine.

 

You are free to come up with your own way of doing this, since you keep expressing doubts in mine.

Shortbus Sry if I sounded like that I'm just making sure I have right 3d visualization from 2d pics which isn't aspersion on your drawings at all! Cuz it's just my inexperience at drafting showing

Since the jack screws (the well known industry standard term for this type of screw)

Shortbus just so u know, I am being totally sincere when I agreed _jack screw_ is better name than _puller bolt_

Shortbus just so I can know we're totally understanding each other, here's reasons I'm worried abt puller tipping:

◊On most of the FBs I've seen jack screws need 2b closer to bottom leg than center of core 2 clear lower end of hv tire.

◊I wondered if jack screw and nut backlash could allow too much tipping toward hardest moving joint?

Shortbus I'm just asking NOT telling or arguing! So like I said I'm not vry mechanically inclined but I'm also not 2 lazy or proud 2 learn abt it! So if u can plz tell me why my concerns aren't problem or if they are how to do workaround then I can build puller so I can determine min temp needed to extract core! Then I can tell HP so she can put alpha team back 2 work b4 JC is tarred and feathered and they bend their efforts instead 2 making HP and Aleph voodoo dolls!

Shortbus so being serious we TOTALLY appreciate your help on this problem!

 

adding anything like sand paper, skateboard grip tape or anything I'm aware of is not helpful to making one work. Take for instance sand paper, to get grip on both puller and item to be separated, you would need to fold it in half or use two pieces. That means there would be two slippery paper/cloth side together, losing all of the advantages of the force applied to the item to be separated.

FWIW I had something like the below imaged material in mind (which being a mat fashioned of silicone 'rubber' featuring 'traction bars' on each 'face').

Like I said above the actual compression has worked the best in my experience.

Corollary to the necessarily 'moderate' (i.e. 'sub-fusion') processing temperatures attending manufacture of inductor-grade ferrite forms, said materials might best be regarded as little more than tightly packed powder (which being only a slight exaggeration) and, hence, prone to 'crumbling' under compression... While I have been unable to locate a resource for compressive strengths of said materials, it is my subjective 'sense' (for whatever that's worth) that such is 'in the realm' of perhaps one fifth that of vitreous china... --- Hence my desire to reduce the required compressive force as much as possible consistent with requisite flange-to-core tenure...

Shortbus I'm just asking NOT telling or arguing! So like I said I'm not vry mechanically inclined but I'm also not 2 lazy or proud 2 learn abt it!

Double ditto! -- Case in point: @shortbus - I recognize the fact that I neglected to apprise you of the structural properties of 'inductor-grade' ferrites... Hence any misapprehension is down to me

Many thanks!
HP

 

the necessarily 'moderate' (i.e. 'sub-fusion') processing temperatures attending manufacture of inductor-grade ferrite forms

HP based on a recent PM between @shortbus and me I say we need 2 revisit old decision of whether 2b calling non-vitrified materials (like ferrite inductor cores) _ceramics_? Cuz it's causing confusion for ppl! So I agree on your points that most ppl think on ferrite as ceramic and also we're not giving lessons on manufacturing cores but I still say it can cause confusion just like it did here giving impression it's stronger than it is! So I don't know exact definition of _ceramic_ but I know most ppl calling something ceramic doesn't make it so cuz like u say _truth is not popularity contest_

FWIW I had something like the below imaged material in mind (which being a mat fashioned of silicone 'rubber' featuring 'traction bars' on each 'face').

HP I say just be totally sure it's really silicone cuz otherwise heat will basically turn it into paste which is lubricant instead of friction enhancement!

 

◊ Riving force is caused by jack screws pressing clamp flanges and so core pieces apart?

Quote Aleph(0) "So say we want to separate both joints"


Due to our(my) ongoing disagreements of using unnecessarily obscure terms for descriptions of things in common use. I after much soul searching have come to the conclusion I can no longer participate in this discussion. Good luck and with wishes of your success.

 

Quote Aleph(0) "So say we want to separate both joints"

Due to our(my) ongoing disagreements of using unnecessarily obscure terms for descriptions of things in common use. I after much soul searching have come to the conclusion I can no longer participate in this discussion. Good luck and with wishes of your success.

Hey @shortbus -- I'm sorry it didn't work out Please know that your input remains welcome here should you reconsider in future!

Many sincere thanks for your efforts on our behalf!

Most sincerely
HP

PS -- Do we have permission for use of your contributions (Specifically as regards assembly of the EHT indicator and your LOPT core extractor)? If so, perhaps you wish to compose the accompanying descriptive text (as per Aleph(0)'s assurance)? -- You have my word there would be no 'editorial-interference' whatever! - Merely verbatim recitation of your text and images - with attribution, of course! --- Thanks in advance for your consideration of this matter...

ETA @shortbus In avoidance of any misunderstanding -- Please be advised that my 'like' of your post (#1286) is by way of expressing appreciation of your courteous honesty and civility! -- That said, I am genuinely sorry to see you leave

 

Due to our(my) ongoing disagreements of using unnecessarily obscure terms for descriptions of things in common use. I after much soul searching have come to the conclusion I can no longer participate in this discussion. Good luck and with wishes of your success.

Shortbus I'm sry too cuz I say it's basically just like dialect difference from language getting totally fragmented cuz of too many subcultures based around just everything (like even just local geographical area, field of endeavor, generation (so like pre vs post IM) and even just hobbies)! So I say it's ether nobody's fault or everybody's fault which either way is exactly same thing cuz it's just what's happening to English language. So speakers being estranged from each other like this is one of the vry sad consequences

Shortbus huge tnx for well wishes and also despite hard words (on both sides) I totally swear there're NO hard feelings at all!

Hey @shortbus -- I'm sorry it didn't work out Please know that your input remains welcome here should you reconsider in future!

Shortbus just so u know I totally agree with that too!

PS -- Do we have permission for use of your contributions (Specifically as regards assembly of the EHT indicator and your LOPT core extractor)? If so, perhaps you wish to compose the accompanying descriptive text (as per Aleph(0)'s assurance)? -- You have my word there would be no 'editorial-interference' whatever! - Merely verbatim recitation of your text and images - with attribution, of course!

Shortbus that's right! So o/c it's totally your call but if it's ok then like I said b4 we'll just copy and paste whatever text u want for your images!

ETA @shortbus In avoidance of any misunderstanding -- Please be advised that my 'like' of your post (#1286) is by way of expressing appreciation of your courteous honesty and civility! -- That said, I am genuinely sorry to see you leave

Shortbus that goes 100% for my _like_ too!

 

I guess it is down to 'linguistics'. My whole reason for the back and forth was to make your project more palatable to the whole hobbyist community. Not for just the minority of people in the world that talk like HP. And don't tell me that all college level text books talk like that. And if you do say that name one. I have bought many used text books, and pay to be a member of my local college library to have access to the books serving the students there and have seen no book using the obscure language that the "tutorial" uses.

Both of you insisted that I read the tutorial, many times, thinking that I hadn't. It (in my estimation) is basically unintelligible. May be to some one with your level of "expertise" and literary skill it makes sense. It must or you wouldn't write that way. But in the beginning of this I was, probably wrongly, that it was to bring more people/students into the fold of EHT. As the tutorial is now, it is up there with, in this day and age, trying to read the original version of James Fenimore Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales. In other words almost unreadable unless you know the language used in the time period it's set in.

For what it's worth you can use anything I posted. Use my 'low brow' (aleph's word for my style) language or class it up to your level. I could care less.

 

I guess it is down to 'linguistics'. My whole reason for the back and forth was to make your project more palatable to the whole hobbyist community. Not for just the minority of people in the world that talk like HP. And don't tell me that all college level text books talk like that. And if you do say that name one. I have bought many used text books, and pay to be a member of my local college library to have access to the books serving the students there and have seen no book using the obscure language that the "tutorial" uses.

Both of you insisted that I read the tutorial, many times, thinking that I hadn't. It (in my estimation) is basically unintelligible. May be to some one with your level of "expertise" and literary skill it makes sense. It must or you wouldn't write that way. But in the beginning of this I was, probably wrongly, that it was to bring more people/students into the fold of EHT. As the tutorial is now, it is up there with, in this day and age, trying to read the original version of James Fenimore Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales. In other words almost unreadable unless you know the language used in the time period it's set in.

Shortbus let's not start all that again! Cuz we've been over it like 1,000,000 times! Anyhow overwhelming majority of feedback on style, content, rigor, readability and presentation is vry favorable and actually complimentary! So that's NOT problem!

So I just wish I could say same abt ease of core extraction! CUZ THAT'S WHERE DIFFICULTY IS!

For what it's worth you can use anything I posted. Use my 'low brow' (aleph's word for my style) language or class it up to your level. I could care less.

Shortbus there's no need to sulk abt _lowbrow_ cuz like u know I used that in response to epithets u described our styles with! Now I'm going 2 tell u something! I've been just as patient and polite as anyone could possibly be to someone talking 2 me and trying 2 provoke me the way u have been on here and on PM! I don't know what your problem is and I don't have 2 know! But if you can't show basic common courtesy then plz stop posting 2 our thread and PM until ur in a civil mood!

Shortbus I'd like 2 include your suggestions but since you find our verbal styles worthy or ridicule I absolutely insist all text accompanying your contributions is totally composed by you! So if and when u want to do that plz let us know!

 

I agree with @Aleph(0) . @shortbus , your thoughts on the linguistic style have been noted. It is time to move on.

 

I now withdraw the right to use any of my drawings or text to them. They have all been deleted and won't be given again.

 

I thought she was sincere

--Emphasis Added--

I daresay you thought right!

My whole reason for the back and forth was to make your project more palatable to the whole hobbyist community.

That being the case, inasmuch as your stated intent was assistance with mechanical aspects of the LOPT optimization process, it seems the insincerity was on your part from the outset...

Not for just the minority of people in the world that talk like HP.

And I assert that had you truly considered Aleph's post with an open mind (and, thus, as you claim, credited her sincerity) You would have been be slower to dismiss others' styles as 'minority' dialects on the basis of their disparity from your own or their departure from your experience...

As the tutorial is now, it is up there with, in this day and age, trying to read the original version of James Fenimore Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales.

Perhaps @Aleph(0) found your conflation of our respect for our reader's intelligence with 'obsolescence' as offensive as you regarded her observation that you seem to deem them 'lowbrows'?...

fell for the bait again. My bad

On the contrary! It is we (principally I) who 'fell' for your 'bait-and-switch' tactics for a third time!

@shortbus Having viewed your post prior to its deletion - I'm bound to say it bore no resemblance whatever to (as you would have us believe) a 'followup' to @Aleph(0) observations (Re: Dialect, etc...) but, rather, more of the petty nonsense that has marked most of your recent interaction with us...

I now withdraw the right to use any of my drawings or text to them. They have all been deleted and won't be given again.

Very well... In deference to your wishes I will delete your content from my blog and posts (I request that @Aleph(0) please does likewise)...

Should you choose at some future juncture to offer your constructive ideas in a forthright manner sans the 'price' of a 'running bicker' - You know where to find us...

Sincerely
HP

 

My whole reason for the back and forth was to make your project more palatable to the whole hobbyist community.

That being the case, inasmuch as your stated intent was assistance with mechanical aspects of the LOPT optimization process, it seems the insincerity was on your part from the outset...

Shortbus Wow! So ur saying your real purpose on here was just hidden agenda of dumbing and crippling tutorial down 2 level of instructables and bad science ledger domain vids and like that! And now u have the _balalaikas_ 2 pretend your other post was response to my extending olive branch when it was just you trying 2 put my eye out with it!

Shortbus I'm totally through talking 2 you! Plz don't post on this thread or contact me at all anymore! Cuz u told too many lies and wasted way too much time for me 2 believe anything u say again! So u can put a feather in your cap and laugh all u like cuz I'll never feel ashamed for giving someone a second chance! But I say ur victory is as hollow as your life must be 2 waste sincere ppl's time and friendship just for what u think on as kicks!

HP Thanks for heads up! So I say u shouldn't feel embarrassed abt falling for his games again! Cuz that's on both of us and anyhow I totally agree that consequences of giving benefit of the doubt to insincere ppl is way better than risk of giving fast count to honest ppl! So if that makes us chumps it's epithet I can live with!

Should you choose at some future juncture to offer your constructive ideas in a forthright manner sans the 'price' of a 'running bicker' - You know where to find us...

HP NO! Not here not ever! He's already had more chances than he deserved!

 

@Aleph(0) @Hypatia's Protege
That is enough. You have more than had your say re: @shortbus . Move on or this thread gets closed.

 

Johnintx What's that all about? I've wanted 2 move on for days!

 

@Aleph(0), @Jazz2C , @theodoravane et al.

As promised

Of course it's not as good as a puller but at ≈ $5 (that's five dollars) apiece well worth a try!

FWIW I've successfully extracted two of two cores (gap temp≈75°C) -- which, of course, means little save for demonstration of the (rather less than surprising) fact that said technique is superior to the 'bare handed' approach -- For all that, I'd feel better granted a 'moment-less' arrangement... Please note that minimum offset may readily be reduced by another ≈ 12mm via simple modification of the passive mandible...

Very best regards
HP

 

For all that, I'd feel better granted a 'moment-less' arrangement...

HP I totally agree! So all that we really need is source for smaller clamps

So anyhow fwiw here's an idea I have: I say u could make like little 'turnbuckle' by drilling and reverse-tapping one end of hex coupling and using LHT bolt on that side (so if u wanted u could make LHT bolt with smooth stock {or just bolt shank} and LH die). Also I say u can make it _momentless_ just by welding like 1/16" thick steel apposition plates to bolt heads at 90° angle. So I say backlash won't be problem cuz of vry short swing (like 3cm max) so thread contact area stays sufficient 2 restrict sideplay!

So I say advantage of my idea over like _single-ended_ bolt & coupling jack is bolts can be angularly stationary! So thrust on apposition plates is applied just by angular input to repurposed hex coupling

 

So I say backlash won't be problem cuz of vry short swing (like 3cm max) so thread contact area stays sufficient 2 restrict sideplay!

@Hypatia's Protege So thinking on it more I say using greatest diameter hex coupling possible will minimize backlash effects enough that welding bolt to apposition plate won't be necessary!

Also 2 further simplify construction I say it can be just single-ended after all by having standard bolt extending to apposition plate from one side of coupling with opposite end of coupling resting on inner race of bearing w/ outer race shimmed to opposite apposition plate! Cuz that way readers don't have to mess with taping or LHT fasteners