Do you mean I could be a high school drop-out working out of the back of a pick-up truck and a quarter of a million a year (gross) is weak pay? I wish I could have got paid more than 1/10th of that for repairing the most sophisticated radios in the American Military inventory. (No, I was not in the military. I was working at the factory where the radios were designed and built.)

--Emphasis Added--

Assuming your demonstrated 'skill set', and, hence, quality of service is commensurate with that of 'trained professionals' - correct! -- Which is not to say one might reasonably expect equitable compensation sans 'jumping through the hoops' -- but that's precisely my point...

IMNSHO the 'linkage' of education/training and 'pay scale' (in many areas of endeavour) is upshot of what amounts to general imposition of a 'supply throttling racket' à la that imposed by plumbing and electrical worker's unions in certain eastern US municipalities --- Without denying the vital role of education, such should not constitute 'qualifying criteria' in and of itself! As an anecdotal illustration of this point, I suggest you investigate the travesty that is the GRE (Graduate Record Exam) --- Clearly, the price of a degree is tuition and tuition alone! --- Discipline, achievement, acumen and, indeed, intellect are 'negotiable'... (Granting that it was not always so and may not yet be the case everywhere)...

As an aside, I strongly feel that even a net income $250k per year by way of compensation for skilled 'labour' is miserly onto punitive! -- Which is not to 'point a finger' at employers many of whom struggle under the self-same paradigm

Not at all. I was envied by many doing the same type of job(die/mold maker) at smaller shops making half or even less than that.

@shortbus -- Please understand! I am in no way, shape or form disparaging the quality of your work/service nor your level of skill! -- My point was merely that I find it nothing short of appalling that $260 per day (i.e. Ca. $70k per year) is considered the upper end of the pay scale Re: your 'line' of skilled labour - Especially as said skill is garnered via a lifetime's experience - as opposed to years of (IMO, dubious) study!

Gentlemen:
Again, by way of dispelling any misapprehension, please be advised that I am in no way a proponent of 'comparable worth' legislation! (Inasmuch as such represents the self-same 'species' of inequity but backed by 'legislative force') -- As much as I'd like to digress upon this point, my 'status' as one of the loudest voices in favor of return to a 'politics prohibited' format forbids!

So... I'm content to leave it at this: I detest all manifestations of feudalism - period!

Very best regards and no offense intended anyone here
HP

 

@shortbus and @#12 I say there's been misunderstandings on both sides So all HP and I are saying is we insist on paying the same amount as we would demand in payment for the same job! That's all! So no offense intended or taken!

Now I say this whole conversation had _silver lining_ cuz now we're aware that a LOT of ppl think on just $20k as a lot of money. So that's totally important for tutorials when deciding what should be DIYed or just bought! It also helps us know when it's worthwhile to suggest work-arounds with less expensive gear!

Should you require/desire upload of the Siemens 'generator' images this weekend, please advise no later than 23z today (7/15) -- Thanks!

HP Sry cuz of being like 16hrs late So I totally understand if you can't get to it now! So I just want to ask what's purpose of 6K resistors and why is resistor on anode side 10Ω more resistance than cathode side?

HP also what frequency does that run at cuz tape wound iron core is more like ignition coil (so like 500hz max?) but cuz xray psu has to resonate for symmetry and to obtain 50% d/c sinewave b4 rectification I don't get it!
Now I'm also saying that 20nF for doubler caps is totally proof freq is low cuz 1nf is more than enough at 30kHz!

 

HP Sry cuz of being like 16hrs late So I totally understand if you can't get to it now!

I'll see what I can do -- but no promises for today!
Please be advised that my responses to your inquiries will accompany 'uping' of the images!

Now I say this whole conversation had _silver lining_ cuz now we're aware that a LOT of ppl think on just $20k as a lot of money. So that's totally important for tutorials when deciding what should be DIYed or just bought! It also helps us know when it's worthwhile to suggest work-arounds with less expensive gear!

Very good point! -- That thought crossed my mind as well!


Best regards
HP

 

So all HP and I are saying is we insist on paying the same amount as we would demand in payment for the same job!

1) I wish you were my customers.
2) For most of America, $20,000 is several month's pay. I get the impression that $20,000 is lunch money for you.
3) I also get the impression that you are unaware of the median income for all Americans.

 

@shortbus -- Please understand! I am in no way, shape or form disparaging the quality of your work/service nor your level of skill! -- My point was merely that I find it nothing short of appalling that $260 per day (i.e. Ca. $70k per year) is considered the upper end of the pay scale Re: your 'line' of skilled labou

And I can't see why you and Aleph, think that $520K a year is adequate pay (If they could find it) for people with no skills, but just a few tools and a truck! The $520k comes from $2k x 260 working days in a year.(5 days x 52 =260days)

 

And I can't see why you and Aleph, think that $520K a year is adequate pay (If they could find it) for people with no skills, but just a few tools and a truck! The $520k comes from $2k x 260 working days in a year.(5 days x 52 =260days)

Where do I submit my application for a job like that????

 

2) For most of America, $20,000 is several month's pay. I get the impression that $20,000 is lunch money for you.
3) I also get the impression that you are unaware of the median income for all Americans.

#12 maybe so but point is we're learning so here's something you can help with! So later on in tutorials when we talk abt potting we'll have to recommend vacuum pump so do you think most ppl reading tutorial will think like $500 is expensive (#12 I'm worried abt that cuz @Sally S on diy cap thread seemed like maybe she thought so cuz she was casting abt for alternatives)? Cuz if you think so too plz suggest source for pump capable of like 10 microns with fresh oil installed? FWIW evacuation rate only has to be like 2 cfm Now I was also thinking on how to save them expense of regular _thermal_ micron meter cuz it doesn't have to be vry accurate since it's just to verify that pump is working well enough to get pressure down to less than 100 microns! So HP has idea abt observing changing characteristics of electric arcs at low pressures but we've been experimenting and it's like knife edge critical where lowering pressure goes from decreasing arc voltage to hugely increasing it! So they'd need gear more expensive than just micron gauge to draw conclusion from arc So I thought we could tell by subliming ice but temperature needed to prove _deep vacuum_ is lower than household freezers (which is like -23°C) and also sublimation it's super slow which means vc would have to be inside refrigerated space

#12 so if you have any suggestions plz let us know cuz it's a big challenge to do workarounds to save just pennies like that! So anyhow it's like they say abt customers, readers are always right even if it doesn't always make sense to us cuz we're totally committed!

people with no skills, but just a few tools and a truck!

Shortbus I say they do have big time skills! It's like HP said they got the job done when they said they would and started at a moment's notice and that's skill almost nobody has!

And I can't see why you and Aleph, think that $520K a year is inadequate pay

Edited to preserve context
Shortbus I say you answered your own question cause you spelled out that it's only half
million USD per year gross! So it's like I say! I wouldn't work for that pay and you shouldn't have to either cuz from what you're saying earlier about your job your work is harder than mine! So comparable worth isn't point! It's just basic decency to pay ppl what their work is worth rather than what some schedule deems it to be worth! Shortbus I say it's like bluebook value of cars which is total BS cuz it's just excuse for insurance companies to rip policy holders off by declaring worth from crooked schedule to get out of paying out fair value for repair or replacement! So it's exactly the same with labor! So anyhow is like HP says I want a clear conscience cuz just cuz something's _common practice_ doesn't make it fair!

Where do I submit my application for a job like that????

Cmartinez that's easy! YOU DON'T! Cuz fair pay means self employment (except from perspective that clients are boss!)

 

@Hypatia's Protege RE: EHT meter project, HP I was just thinking you don't have to put them to trouble of building in special calibration mode cuz you can just run leads from d'Arsonval meter to back panel test lead connectors. So they could calibrate it just by looking on voltage across movement for correspondence with input voltage with dividers, shunt{s} and movement resistance all taken into account! Cuz o/c shunting movement with 10M dmm input resistance is totally insignificant for readings!

 

Cmartinez that's easy! YOU DON'T! Cuz fair pay means self employment (except from perspective that clients are boss!)

Nah... I've been self employed for more than 25 years already, and have yet to find a customer that pays that well.

 

Nah... I've been self employed for more than 25 years already, and have yet to find a customer that pays that well.

Cmartinez all I can say is it's harder in some fields than others But anyhow my point is it's totally IMPOSSIBLE to get fair pay being an employee!

 

Cmartinez all I can say is it's harder in some fields than others But anyhow my point is it's totally IMPOSSIBLE to get fair pay being an employee!

I'm afraid that the word fair doesn't apply in most business transactions. There's only supply and demand... and opportunity

 

$500 is expensive for pump capable of like 10 microns

There ain't no such animal as 10 microns for <$500
I accidentally got to 40 microns (It could have gone farther) with a new HVAC vacuum pump because I was distracted for 40 minutes and I had the @joeyd999 micron gauge, and I am OCD about my tools, but you can't get a 10 micron guarantee for <$500 and most people can't achieve 10 microns with a good pump bc they aren't willing to OCD every connection in the system!

I've been self employed for more than 25 years already

IMPOSSIBLE to get fair pay being an employee

@Aleph(0) Have you been drunk posting?
(I ask bc one member asked me in PM but I can't tell fake numpty from drunk posting and could not answer him.)

less than 100 microns!

That's achievable with an HVAC pump, but they are now abt $500. Last time I bought one, abt $280. Must recommend the joeyd999 micron gauge. Best I've ever seen. Industry standard for HVAC is 500 microns, but I routinely go to 50 microns bc I'm nutz about quality and all it takes is to go work on something else for half an hour. (What extra labor?) I had 2 leak failures in 40 years. And I fixed one of them before end of work that day!

Especially as said skill is garnered via a lifetime's experience - as opposed to years of (IMO, dubious) study!

Thank you!!!
Must repeat that: Thank you!!! But how many years of experience does it take to operate a 2 ton truck or rent a plasma cutter?
I'm telling you a scrap metal collector doesn't need 100 I.Q. or years of training and experience.
For that, he's worth 10X what I was paid for Mil Spec radio repairs? In today's money, I could get 20% of what you feel is minimum for men who can tie their shoes without looking.

It's like HP said they got the job done when they said they would and started at a moment's notice and that's skill almost nobody has!

My average response time was 20 minutes. One day it took me 3 hours to arrive, and I apologized to customer for being so slow.
As for quality? I had 2, "red tag" inspections in 40 years. One was for too may wires under a screw clamp and one was full blown mistake...overflow detector in the wrong place. I have never achieved more than $125 per hour gross billing. and that was the year I lost half my customers bc trying to charge 1/2 going rate.

It's just basic decency to pay ppl what their work is worth rather than what some schedule deems it to be worth!

fair doesn't apply in most business transactions. There's only supply and demand... and opportunity

 

Wait...there is a 2 stage vacuum pump on this page for $250:
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...tioning-Vacuum-Pumps/zgbs/automotive/15707041

 

Where do I submit my application for a job like that????

YOU DON'T! Cuz fair pay means self employment (except from perspective that clients are boss!)

---Emphasis Added---

Nah... I've been self employed for more than 25 years already, and have yet to find a customer that pays that well.

Cmartinez all I can say is it's harder in some fields than others But anyhow my point is it's totally IMPOSSIBLE to get fair pay being an employee

I'm afraid that the word fair doesn't apply in most business transactions. There's only supply and demand... and opportunity

All of which raises an intriguing question as regards the precise description of 'self employment' from 'employment by another' --- Inasmuch as a skilled, "in demand" 'worker' may figuratively 'take his/her pick' of employers, it would seem he/she is indistinguishable from a 'self employed' professional from a subordination standpoint...

@Hypatia's Protege RE: EHT meter project, HP I was just thinking you don't have to put them to trouble of building in special calibration mode cuz you can just run leads from d'Arsonval meter to back panel test lead connectors. So they could calibrate it just by looking on voltage across movement for correspondence with input voltage with dividers, shunt{s} and movement resistance all taken into account! Cuz o/c shunting movement with 10M dmm input resistance is totally insignificant for readings!

Indeed! -- I had thought to offer optional use of a DMM as an external indicating device -- howbeit, inasmuch said feature would complicate construction of the project (primarily owing to the necessity multiple switches or additional rotary switch positions) as well as effectively defeat the 'bulletproof' (i.e. newbie-proof) nature of the instrument - methinks I'll give that one a 'miss' -- So.... Wiring will be as you describe and for calibration purposes only...

FWIW -- I'll be ready to post construction details/images as soon as I 'work out' a reasonably aesthetic Faraday shielding arrangement for the d'Arsonval movement

Very best regards
HP

 

Wait...there is a 2 stage vacuum pump on this page for $250:
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...tioning-Vacuum-Pumps/zgbs/automotive/15707041

Thanks! Based upon your expertise/experience do you have any brand preferences or caveats you wish to share?

Very best regards
HP

 

it would seem he/she is indistinguishable from a 'self employed' professional from a subordination standpoint...

Oh, there are many, many differences (pros and cons) between them.

For instance, a self employed person:

• Does not enjoy paid vacation
• Does not have any Christmas, Thanksgiving or any other holiday perks
• Does not have a single boss, but has many. They give him conflicting orders regarding the use of his resources most of the time.
• Does his best to keep his costumers from learning about each other... just like jealous lovers
• Is completely and unavoidably responsible for his own mistakes
• Cannot leave work at the workplace, since his workplace is his own head and hands.
• Cannot count on financial aid from anyone, other than his own

And those are just a few.... I'm sure that @#12 can come up with quite a few more...

P.S: pardon me for using the term his in my previous list, instead of the more politically correct his/her... I'm lazy that way...

 

Thanks! Based upon your expertise/experience do you have any brand preferences or caveats you wish to share?

It has only been a matter of luck that I discovered HVAC pumps far in excess of guaranteed minimum performance. Having worn out 2 in my career (and bought 3), my sample of the population is without ρ, but my preference has always been Robinair brand and that's the one which "accidentally" achieved 40 microns. I remember my first vacuum pump was Robinair, but I forget what brand the second pump was. Testimony being that Robinair has been in business for probably 50+ years and has developed quality in spite of lax standards for the industry.

My caveat has already been posted. "Most people aren't OCD enough to achieve 10 microns, even with a good pump." but I wouldn't even try with a single stage pump.

ps, I'd bet my left fibula on micron gauge by joeyd999.

 

There ain't no such animal as 10 microns for <$500

As a practical matter 500umHg is 'low enough' for desiccation/potting purposes howbeit, in my experience, such 'sloppy' pumps tend 'lose their pull' in short order

most people can't achieve 10 microns with a good pump bc they aren't willing to OCD every connection in the system!

OCD as regards cleanliness (i.e. 'dryness') of the oil is likewise a useful 'handicap'

Have you been drunk posting?

@Aleph(0) only drinks at conventions! -- If that's changed I must be drunk as well because I agree with her!

I'm telling you a scrap metal collector doesn't need 100 I.Q. or years of training and experience.

For all that I've no doubt the Serco alone cost more than $520k -- Hence they grossed less than 1/26'th their investment in a single 'tool' -- That I call meager pay by any standard!

For that, he's worth 10X what I was paid for Mil Spec radio repairs? In today's money, I could get 20% of what you feel is minimum for men who can tie their shoes without looking.

Absolutely! You were 'shafted' as well-- but then two wrongs don't make a right (well... Certainly not in this case)...

My average response time was 20 minutes. One day it took me 3 hours to arrive, and I apologized to customer for being so slow.
As for quality? I had 2, "red tag" inspections in 40 years. One was for too may wires under a screw clamp and one was full blown mistake...overflow detector in the wrong place. I have never achieved more than $125 per hour gross billing. and that was the year I lost half my customers bc trying to charge 1/2 going rate.

All the more reason to insist upon equitable pay! Or, at very least, decry the inequity for the extortion that it is! (To wit: I'm sensitive to the likelihood that the 'demands of survival' may preclude one's "pricing himself out of the market, as it were") --- Granting that I may be 'missing something' here (text-mode communication again) - I don't see what the argument's about?

Very best regards
HP

 

Oh, there are many, many differences (pros and cons) between them.

For instance, a self employed person:

• Does not enjoy paid vacation
• Does not have any Christmas, Thanksgiving or any other holiday perks
• Does not have a single boss, but has many. They give him conflicting orders regarding the use of his resources most of the time.
• Does his best to keep his costumers from learning about each other... just like jealous lovers
• Is completely and unavoidably responsible for his own mistakes
• Cannot leave work at the workplace, since his workplace is his own head and hands.
• Cannot count on financial aid from anyone, other than his own

And those are just a few.... I'm sure that @#12 can come up with quite a few more...

P.S: pardon me for using the term his in my previous list, instead of the more politically correct his/her... I'm lazy that way...

I failed to mention that a self employed person does not enjoy the benefits of a fixed and predictable income, but is rather subject to the more exciting (and less enjoyable) roller-coaster type of economy...

 

Serco alone

Certification of the Corporation?

@Aleph(0) only drinks at conventions!

Thanks for the tip. Calculating whether international travel is cost effective for options on predatory debauchery.
Probably not, considering I look more like avatar of joeyd than avatar of me.

I don't see what the argument's about?

The argument is about you feeling blessed to pay 10X what the job was worth in a free market when you should have been collecting 90% of the scrap value of the metal.

Absolutely! You were 'shafted' as well-

I was, "shafted" by reality, the reality of supply and demand in the free market. You are allowed to pay 10X the going rate, and I can't, "fix" your feelings. We just want you to realize you are the one with the natural affinity to gripping your ankles.