Oh, there are many, many differences (pros and cons) between them.

For instance, a self employed person:

• Does not enjoy paid vacation
• Does not have any Christmas, Thanksgiving or any other holiday perks
• Does not have a single boss, but has many. They give him conflicting orders regarding the use of his resources most of the time.
• Does his/her best to keep his costumers from learning about each other... just like jealous lovers
• Is completely and unavoidably responsible for his own mistakes
• Cannot leave work at the workplace, since his workplace is his own head and hands.
• Cannot count on financial aid from anyone, other than his own

Indeed! That certainly describes 'self employment' -- (for all that, in my opinion/experience the 'pros' far outweight the 'cons')

So... Perhaps "free agent' best describes a highly skilled, in-demand (and, hence 'non-subordinate') employee?

P.S: pardon me for using the term his in my previous list, instead of the more politically correct his/her..

NO problem! --- In point of fact exclusive use of He/Him/His, 'man', 'men', etc is not sexist inasmuch as said forms are were standard for gender-neutral and context-determined reference -- But then I s'pose eloquence can't compete with identity politics, 'victimhood' and 'lexiphobia' where the benighted masses are concerned

Best regards
HP

 

I failed to mention that a self employed person does not enjoy the benefits of a fixed and predictable income, but is rather subject to the more exciting (and less enjoyable) roller-coaster type of economy..

But that's a non-issue inasmuch as even conservative investment soon becomes a significant source of income

Best regards
HP

 

But that's a non-issue inasmuch as even conservative investment soon becomes a significant source of income

Best regards
HP

If you're hardworking, smart and lucky (this last attribute is very important), then sure, income can be substantial... but when luck dries out for a while, pressure can build up so much that it literally affects your bodily functions... about 3 years ago I went through a record dry spell... no income for more than 18 months!... absolutely horrible... things are ok now, though... and I'm extremely grateful.

 

Certification of the Corporation?

No Cerco Loader....

Like this but much larger!

Thanks for the tip. Calculating whether international travel is cost effective for options on predatory debauchery.
Probably not

Careful! - When 'in her cups' it seems @Aleph(0)'s role is that of the 'debaucher' -- Or so say her 'conquests'

The argument is about you feeling blessed to pay 10X what the job was worth in a free market

But then I view the 'free' market as a price and wage manipulation racket which I have no desire to support!

I was, "shafted" by reality, the reality of supply and demand in the free market

And I maintain that there is nothing 'real' or 'free' about the so called 'free market' -- Granting that extortion is 'real' enough such is foisted upon the public via a wholly artificial ruse!

You are allowed to pay 10X the going rate, and I can't, "fix" your feelings.

And you are free to accept 1/10'th the worth of services in payment if you so choose -- Inasmuch as our disparate philosophies are without negative impact upon each other -- why the argument?

Very best regards
HP

 

If you're hardworking, smart and lucky (this last attribute is very important)

On that we are in absolute agreement!

I believe 'good fortune' trumps (notice the lower-case 't') hard work, intellect and education hands down! (which is not to say the latter are not absolutely necessary)!

Very best regards
HP

 

On that we are in absolute agreement!

I believe 'good fortune' trumps (notice the lower-case 't') hard work, intellect and education hands down! (which is not to say the latter are not absolutely necessary)!

Very best regards
HP

Here's a very interesting article regarding that subject that I think you might enjoy reading:

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170525-opinion-getting-rich-has-more-to-do-with-luck-than-talent

 

Inasmuch as our disparate philosophies are without negative impact upon each other -- why the argument?

Apparently misplaced empathy.

When 'in her cups' it seems @Aleph(0)'s role is that of the 'debaucher'

Ah yes. I reminisce fondly on similar face. Her name was Sonia, in California, in 1977.
I was in a full length leg cast and thus, easy prey.
It was a very good day.

 

All the more reason to insist upon equitable pay! Or, at very least, decry the inequity for the extortion that it is! (To wit: I'm sensitive to the likelihood that the 'demands of survival' may preclude one's "pricing himself out of the market, as it were") --- Granting that I may be 'missing something' here (text-mode communication again) - I don't see what the argument's about?

I know this is going to sound crude and personal, but have you ever worked a job in industry or for a company? Your many postings come across as the answer being 'no'. Not trying to be disrespectful, but you and Aleph both are really coming across as having a "silver appendage" in your mouths.

 

I know this is going to sound crude and personal, but have you ever worked a job in industry or for a company? Your many postings come across as the answer being 'no'. Not trying to be disrespectful, but you and Aleph both are really coming across as having a "silver appendage" in your mouths.

I have asked if they knew what the median income in the U.S. is. The only answer I can get is, "It's not fair".
Well, here's the answer: $46,120 in 2015
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html
HP paid almost 6 months of wages for 20 man-days of work, and she is grateful it was so economical for her.

 

this is going to sound crude and personal

Not really -- Come to that, by comparison with 'politics', it might even be said to be 'right neighborly'! -- As an aside I can but hope the 'religion experiment' dies a swifter, less painful, 'death' than did its unlamented predecessor

have you ever worked a job in industry or for a company?

Aleph's sole for-profit 'work activity' is -and has been- as owner of her own organization (note that I far prefer the term 'independently employed' to 'self employed' -- but there it is)

FWIW Near the beginning of my 'primary' career I was said to be 'on staff' at one facility and possessed of 'privileges' at several others - the latter arrangement being my present extent of employment by a 'company'. That said, honesty compels my confession that income from said facilities (albeit fair) did/does not not comprise a significant portion of my income from said work - Hence, for all intents and purposes, it might be said that I was and am 'self employed'...

As regards 'peripheral' areas of 'gainful endeavour' I am and have always been 'self employed' in the 'standard sense' of the phrase...

@shortbus -- Now that I have thoughtfully and honestly responded to your inquiry - might I ask as to your point? --- Are you asserting that 'self employment' somehow invalidates our viewpoints whereas a history of 'employment by another' confers 'credible authority' upon yours?

but you and Aleph both are really coming across as having a "silver appendage" in your mouths.

Be that as it may we really are making an effort at reaching-out to readers with limited resources! -- Witness The Alternate Instrument Addendum, and the (forthcoming) EHT indicator construction 'article'...

I have asked if they knew what the median income in the U.S. is. The only answer I can get is, "It's not fair".
Well, here's the answer: $46,120 in 2015
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html
HP paid almost 6 months of wages for 20 man-days of work, and she is grateful it was so economical for her.

@#12 -- If you'll please forgive an observation -- you're missing the point!

Ok then... By the numbers

1) I believe you!
2) I grant the 'statistics'!
3) I credit the references!

4) It doesn't make any difference!

The fact that the 'median' wage earner is paid Ca. 1/100'th his/her labour's net worth by the 'median' employer neither mandates (nor excuses) my donning an 'Ebenezer Scrooge mask' and following suit!

I would not consider (or, in any event, like) working for tenfold the above cited pittance! -- Hence my refusal to ask or expect the same of others! (Again, I am not indicting 'employers' in general inasmuch as, in many cases, their resources are likewise limited by the self-same injustices inherent to the economy

Why is that so difficult to understand? -- A non-rhetorical question...


Very best regards
HP

 

@shortbus -- Now that I have thoughtfully and honestly responded to your inquiry - might I ask as to your point?

My point is and I know you won't like it, that you are sounding like a congress person or someone with a lot of money. It's not whether you have money, I could care less, and am glad for you if you do. But your ideas of what is 'fair compensation' are not in step with what is 'normal compensation'. This all started when you seemed to be saying that you thought you were taking advantage of the scrappers. Believe me you weren't. It's noble of you to do what you did, but that isn't how things usually work out.

This also goes back to my use of the term 'real world'. People in everyday life would never think of spending money like you are throwing out there. Most companies I've worked for wouldn't spend like that. Even GM my last employer didn't spend like that with out some very long hard debate. And assurance that the expenditure was going to pay for it's self in a certain time span.

I guess I'm trying to understand how a seemingly very intelligent woman can have such a disconnected view of how people really live. Even with a 'good' job, most don't have the extra to live 'high on the hog'.

 

It doesn't matter what people are paid. If they feel what they are paid, for their services, is acceptable; they are happy. Would they like to get more? Sure. Do they have the necessary requisites to earn that higher number? Maybe, maybe not.

I know plenty with qualifications that differed from the skill set expected of those qualifications. I'm starting to think they passed through a notch filter with sharp skirts.

 

my point is and I know you won't like it, that you are sounding like a congress person or someone with a lot of money.

To be crystal clear -- Neither @Aleph(0) nor I are politicians or 'politically active'! -- Hence that particular aspect of your point would seem a non sequitur?...

But your ideas of what is 'fair compensation' are not in step with what is 'normal compensation'.

---Emphasis Added---

Whose 'normal'??? - Get my point?

It's noble of you to do what you did

On the contrary! -- I paid them nothing (save for the trifling value of the scrap they hauled away at their effort, peril and expense) in exchange for ten day's difficult, hazardous labour!

To make matters worse, for reasons of pride, 'business ethics' (or whatever) they refuse to accept an 'after the fact' adjustment -- Indeed it was never my intent to 'take advantage of them'! - Said oversight owed to distraction attending my preoccupation with sourcing applicable forms fashioned of the correct alloy (specifically; I failed to forward payment directives to Accounts on the assumption that the salvage operation would submit an invoice -- explanation not excuse!) - When I approached them (the following fortnight) the salvage operators' declined my offer of proper payment on the basis that, in their words: 'a deal is a deal'

People in everyday life would never think of spending money like you are throwing out there.

Are you now 'taking possession' of 'everyday life'? Whose 'everyday life'? -- Moreover I'd hardly say that I'm "throwing money" away/around, etc...

Most companies I've worked for wouldn't spend like that. Even GM my last employer didn't spend like that with out some very long hard debate.

@shortbus Either you are the veritable king of hyperbole or I'm misunderstanding the above quoted statement?! -- Assuming GM="General Motors" I'm certain GM spends more in a single quarter than I could hope to in a lifetime!

And assurance that the expenditure was going to pay for it's self in a certain time span.

With the exception of investments themselves (e.g. commodities, stocks, etc...) -- I spend money on goods and services sans expectation of monetary return... - IMO money is for trade - it has little value in and of itself - but then I would have thought that went without saying?

guess I'm trying to understand how a seemingly very intelligent woman can have such a disconnected view of how people really live.

Are you now 'claiming title' to 'really' or, once again, to what constitutes 'real people'? --- @shortbus in case it's any consolation, your perspectives (as regards this topic) are as 'alien' to me as mine sound like being to you... -- Even so, you don't see me pathologizing your views! - Why do you feel a need to marginalize mine?

On the other hand:
If, via the above quoted statement, you are asserting that the instructional material under development on this thread is 'falling short' of our pledged provision of access to readers struggling with limited resources - I implore you to please give us specific examples! -- Please know that this is a sincere request for assistance - not a rhetorical challenge!

Even with a 'good' job

If you truly believe that activity grossing Ca. $260k per year constitutes a 'well paying job' you have no room whatever to brand us 'delusional'! --- Please note my use of 'well paying' as opposed to 'good' -- sadly good work is not uncommonly badly compensated!

most don't have the extra to live 'high on the hog'.

I live as comfortably and productively as my resources permit - call it what you will...

Do they have the necessary requisites to earn that higher number? Maybe, maybe not.

Speaking for myself - I'm far more interested in demonstrated ability (which being, as a practical matter, 'experience') than credentials (except where attention to the latter is required by law [e.g. licensure] and/or underwriters)...

Very best regards
HP

 

you're missing the point!

It doesn't make any difference!

I know.
I know the facts. I know the feelings
You know the facts. You know the feelings.

Why is that so difficult to understand? -- A non-rhetorical question...

It isn't difficult to understand. What is difficult to understand is why you think I don't understand.
You bought the wrong SS. You had a feeling about it. You paid to make the SS and the feeling go away.
You believe that how the rest of the world operates doesn't make any difference to you.
Disagreeing with you and agreeing to disagree does not translate to, "I don't understand."
Why is it so difficult to understand that?
Or is this a game of, "He who posts last wins"?

 

What is difficult to understand is why you think I don't understand.

---Emphasis Added---

Because you (for one) refuse to 'let it go' - as if my insistence upon fair compensation of manual labour is somehow offensive!

You believe that how the rest of the world operates

Your perspective does not constitute 'universal truth' anymore than does mine...

Or is this a game of, "He who posts last wins"?

You tell me? -- It's you and @shortbus who won't move past it

agreeing to disagree

And a good plan it was! -- But then a truce is a bilateral arrangement!

So... Lets try it again: Agreed to disagree ...K?

Sincerely, Best regards
HP

 

So... Lets try it again: Agreed to disagree ...K?

HP I totally agree! @#12 and @shortbus you say metal's scrap price is too much to pay for its disposal and HP and I say it's not enough so we've all had our say and it's just opinion anyhow so I say time to move on!

 

I'll see what I can do -- but no promises for today!

HP does next Sunday work 4u?

 

Probably not, considering I look more like avatar of joeyd than avatar of me.

@#12 I say don't let it bother you! Just be happy you don't look like _heart throb_ Dean Wetter!

Careful! - When 'in her cups' it seems @Aleph(0)'s role is that of the 'debaucher' -- Or so say her 'conquests'

HP I say you're cruisin' cuz you live in glass house and I have way more ammo than you!

 

@HP and Aleph. You win. Your world is the one every one inhabits. The more I try to explain the more you resist my explanations, and put meanings to the words that aren't meant. So yes, you win.

 

HP does next Sunday work 4u?

Can do! - Howbeit I prefer to merely post the descriptive text in the usual fashion --as opposed to-- 'embedding' same within the images (MS Paint leaves much to be desired in the ways of 'user friendliness' and, indeed, functionality)

@#12 I say don't let it bother you! Just be happy you don't look like _heart throb_ Dean Wetter!

Oh my! It's Big Ann and her Lothario! How romantic! -- Thus it seems she's exchanged a 'monkey on her back' for a revenant on her arm?! - Speaking of which, one wonders where she dug him up?!

Best regards and TTFN
HP