That's coming from the fact that no matter what I say anywhere on this forum, JJ calls me ignorant, either outright or in so many words. So, due to this, I do it preemptively when I answer a post from him.

Then don't comment on my posts and don't mention me in yours. It's that simple.

I've ignored your posts for quite some time ... till you confronted me.

 

I know HP is north of the U.S. and I'd bet her government states something very similar.

To be clear I'm a US citizen residing in the US (Spec: Minnesota)

Perhaps you're thinking of @Aleph(0)? (Who resides in Ontario with 'dual' [i.e. US and Canadian] citizenship...

Best regards
HP

 

Here's what Publication 17 for the Tax Year 2016 stated:

Thanks @JoeJester!

@#12 and @shortbus
I must say that I never -in my wildest flights of fancy- imagined that allowing a pile of scrap to "pay for its disposal" - then exhibiting the unmitigated audacity of honouring my tax obligations would be so controversial!

Oh well... I've survived worse PR than good citizenship!

Best regards
HP

 

I'd say you were very ethical. You have the paperwork for the acquisition and disposal of the material.

 

You have the paperwork for the acquisition and disposal of the material.

Said invoices are filed with accounts (along with my other tax records) -- IIRC the regulatory requirement (Re: tax document retention) is three tax years -- howbeit I regard 'permanent' (i.e. life-long) retention as the best policy...

Very best regards
HP

 

a scrap metal dealer would be contacted and would come in and pay you for the metal. Metal of that magnitude and value is bought.Then you would have to pay taxes on the money paid by the scrap yard. This whole 'barter' thing is not how real world people do things.

@shortbus Wow! Just Wow!

Shortbus sry but I say you're the one who needs a reality check! I sure as heck wouldn't work for a lousy $2K per day even if it was after taxes, expenses and payment on benefit plan and I say you wouldn't either! And my work is totally easier than theirs! So why do you think scrap dealers should have to accept such terrible pay?

Shortbus How I grew up part of reality is ppl should get fair pay for their work! So are you saying only certain types of workers deserve fair compensation and the rest should be just slave labor for subsistence? Wow!

@#12, I've come to the realization that you and I must be 'brothers from different mothers'. We also live in the "real world" not in some 'fantasy world', of always doing things by the "book", what ever that book is. That 'fantasy world' seems to have people looking over their shoulders at everything they do. Is it because they are afraid that a misstep will uncover the lager unlawful things that are done? Only the Shadow knows.

Shortbus so ur saying law abiding ppl are really just crooks trying to hide major criminality by obeying like _little laws_ ? Shortbus I hope ur not really that cynical just for your own sake! Cuz your _real world_ sounds like you trying to rationalize fraud based on your fantasy that _everyone's a criminal anyhow so what the heck?_ So I say you totally know better than that!

So... 'bout all I can say is if you don't think complete, clean removal of 24 tons of junk in ten day's time is worth more than $20k - then, IMHO, you're 'out of touch'

HP I totally agree!

@shortbus and @#12 I know ur nice guys and I LIKE YOU! But I have to ask what you have against scrap dealers that makes you think they don't deserve fair pay for hard work?

 

I know ur nice guys and I LIKE YOU! But I have to ask what you have against scrap dealers that makes you think they don't deserve fair pay for hard work?

I AM a part time scrap dealer and I can scent that tcm is, too. I have paid people to let me in their condemned building and un-bolt their scraps. I have beat the ballasts out of fluorescent fixtures all day, just to separate the transformers from the steel. I have sliced the u-tube off the ends of thousands of air conditioner coils to separate the silver from the copper. I have disassembled household appliances into their flat panels in order to get the maximum amount in my truck. I have broken the plastic bumpers on (2) Ford Aerostars loading dead water heaters. I have prowled the alleys filching dead appliances and discarded bicycles out of trash piles. At this very moment, I have the tailgate off a Nissan pick-up truck, two air compressors, a water heater and a hundred pounds of car parts in my scrap pile. I would scan a receipt in, but I haven't used my scanner for so long I would have to re-install the drivers.

Now, what do I have against myself?

 

@shortbus Wow! Just Wow!

Shortbus sry but I say you're the one who needs a reality check! I sure as heck wouldn't work for a lousy $2K per day even if it was after taxes, expenses and payment on benefit plan and I say you wouldn't either! And my work is totally easier than theirs! So why do you think scrap dealers should have to accept such terrible pay?

Shortbus How I grew up part of reality is ppl should get fair pay for their work! So are you saying only certain types of workers deserve fair compensation and the rest should be just slave labor for subsistence? Wow!


Shortbus so ur saying law abiding ppl are really just crooks trying to hide major criminality by obeying like _little laws_ ? Shortbus I hope ur not really that cynical just for your own sake! Cuz your _real world_ sounds like you trying to rationalize fraud based on your fantasy that _everyone's a criminal anyhow so what the heck?_ So I say you totally know better than that!


HP I totally agree!

@shortbus and @#12 I know ur nice guys and I LIKE YOU! But I have to ask what you have against scrap dealers that makes you think they don't deserve fair pay for hard work?

Thanks Aleph! -- 'Tis nice to know that (not quite) the entire site is 'out of step' with HP

I sure as heck wouldn't work for a lousy $2K per day even if it was after taxes, expenses and payment on benefit plan

And my work is totally easier than theirs!

Ditto! and Double Ditto! -- Note also that they shared $2k per day gross pay! -- On my word! It was never my intent to 'diddle' them as I did! -- Seems my 'self-pity' (Re: disruption of the project's schedule) left little room for sensitivity to the feelings (and, indeed, rights) of others! -- The good news is that they didn't seem to notice - and, more importantly, that I'll have plenty of opportunity to make it up to them Re: demolition and cleanup of the old mill site

I have paid people to let me in their condemned building and un-bolt their scraps.

Inasmuch as the building was slated for demolition, I don't imagine your labour in removing the scrap was of any value to the owner{s}? - Even so I feel it was both unreasonable and avaricious of them to charge you for removal of the materials (unless, that is, your admission to the premises exposed the owners' to liability in the event of [your] injury, etc...?)

In anticipation of @Aleph(0)'s next question (and to satisfy my own curiosity):

Granting that (based upon your comments on this thread and elsewhere) you are strongly of the opinion that $820 per ton is excessive compensation for labour-intensive scrap removal --and-- that your efforts are on a par with those of the salvage personnel who removed my stainless (IMO your efforts represent 'harder' labour inasmuch as, per your description, much of it was manual)...

Do you feel your compensation is equitable? -- If yes then I defer to your own words - To wit:

Now, what do I have against myself?

What indeed?!

With best regards and a genuinely open mind
HP

 

@Aleph(0) Like #12 said. $2K a day is fantasy. My highest paying job in industry(right before retirement) was ~ $260 a day, before taxes. And my job was the highest rate of pay in the hourly pay pool.

People normally either give people the scrap outright, or pay a scrap yard rent to provide a scrap container, and they get the money from any form of scrap in the container. And the scrap dealers have people making minimum wage to sort it at the yard.

The people I know that own businesses do crooked things all the time. Sorry maybe I just know outlaws. They do small things that cost them a little in taxes so no one will look deeper. They will cheat employees out of money any time they can, lived through that just out of high school.

As for the scrap dealers, if you think they make more than minimum wages you don't know what things really are like. I'd be willing to bet that the guy's cutting and hauling the scrap were just 'laborers', and laborers make minimum wage, same as the guy flipping burgers. If the were 'independents' not working for a scrapyard, You can bet a couple of things were happening. 1. they were high fiving them selves when they got the job. 2. they were laughing a HP in the bar after work.

The real world is not like you think it is, sorry.

 

$2K a day is fantasy.

I don't follow... I'm not comfortable with it either - 'tho I'm bound to say It compares favorably with $260 per day (which you seem to regard as equitable compensation?!) -- @shortbus In case you missed it: I own the fact that I underpaid them! -- A fact you appeared to disagree with a few posts back?

I'd be willing to bet that the guy's cutting and hauling the scrap were just 'laborers',

@shortbus -- As I explained on the original thread on this topic they co-own the firm (technically LLC) -- I wouldn't lie to you!
Further to that, their assets include vacation properties in Europe and the Bahamas, private luxury air and watercraft, Italian 'sports cars' and other 'toys' -- Point being: I assure you! -Pikers they are not! -- But then that should come as no surprise in view of the fact that salvage is speculation and speculation pays!

The real world is not like you think it is, sorry.

I must say that I find your repeated intimation that @Aleph(0) and myself are somehow blind to the asperities of 'the common person' frankly offensive!

Do you truly ignore the arrogance apparent in your 'appropriation' of 'Reality', 'The Real World' and what constitutes 'Real People'?! - To challenge the validity of other's world views in response to a disagreement as regards the value of manual labor comes across as all of desperate, petty and utterly unbecoming you! -- I feel we are owed an explanation if not an apology!

Sincerely
HP

PS @shortbus -- It occurs to me that you may be having us on? -- If so I offer apologies for my apparent lack of 'a sense of humour' -- That said, please be advised that much in the way of 'subtlety' is lost to textual communication's dearth of verbal cues...

 

HP,

They realized the 20k was their COGS. If they sell it for more than that 20k, they will only have a smaller profit that incurs a tax liability. If they didn't think that your offer was viable, you'd be negotiating with someone else. Now that you know some will PAY to haul it, keep their virtual business cards in your virtual Rolodex.

 

I must say that I find your repeated intimation that @Aleph(0) and myself are somehow blind to the asperities of 'the common person' frankly offensive!

Shortbus and I are describing how the scrap metal business works, "common practice" or, "business as usual". Nobody is claiming you do not understand how difficult life is for scrap metal workers. We are claiming that you attribute far more asperity than what the truth is, and pay far above the going rate for it.

You need only observe your own testimony:

their assets include vacation properties in Europe and the Bahamas, luxury private air and watercraft, Italian 'sports cars' and other 'toys' --

and they accomplished most of that by performing, "business as usual".

 

Shortbus and I are describing how the scrap metal business works, "common practice" or, "business as usual".

Sincere thanks for that @#12 -- Indeed! I claim no conversance with the nuances of 'the salvage trade' nor 'common business practice' thereof...

@shortbus please know that my indignation (expressed in post #1092) was issue of nothing more than your use of phrases and words such as; 'real world', 'real people', 'real life', 'reality', etc... If such was merely an unfortunate choice of words -- To wit: if your intent was merely expression of the opinion that we (i.e. @Aleph(0) and myself) ignore 'standard business protocol' as regards salvage operation then, speaking for myself, I regard 'the record' as amended

That said, I can, by no stretch of logic, understand the negative reaction to my assertion that salvage operators are grossly under-compensated? Like @Aleph(0), I would not, under any circumstances, consider working at the 'pay rate' (effectively) paid for removal of that non-magnetic steel! -- IMNSHO a scant $20k for ten days hard, hazardous, resource intensive labour more closely approaches insult than compensation! - Standard practice or not - I neither expect nor (intentionally) ask others to accept conditions that I would find unacceptable!...

and they accomplished most of that by performing, "business as usual".

Indeed! They've done very well! Moreover, as per your assertion, they claim their success derives wholly from their salvage operation and outside investments made possible thereby -- Even so, I feel good work deserves fair pay! And $2k per day is just embarrassing -- FWIW I assume they hold scrap for resale at such time as the market allows realization of reasonable profit - but then, as is the nature of all manner of high risk investment, it amounts to a gamble at best! -- In any event their post-transaction actions are none of my concern and, certainly, should not be a determinant of their compensation!

By way of explanation (which being by no means an excuse!) I bitterly regret that I allowed my annoyance at delay of my LINAC project (corollary to purchase of an 'inapplicable' alloy) to distract my attention from business. Then too their (i.e. the salvage operators') pride/principles bar my offers of post-transaction adjustment (their refrain being "a deal's a deal", etc...)-- That said, I fully intend to make it up to them Re: the next job which being scheduled for September!

HP,

They realized the 20k was their COGS. If they sell it for more than that 20k, they will only have a smaller profit that incurs a tax liability. If they didn't think that your offer was viable, you'd be negotiating with someone else. Now that you know some will PAY to haul it, keep their virtual business cards in your virtual Rolodex.

@JoeJester -- Please expand on that? I assumed salvage operator's 'played the market' with scrap? I cannot envision another profit mechanism - especially as it seems a mater of consensus that even $20k for a ten day job is well above typical compensation --- Many advance thanks!


Very best regards
HP

 

@shortbus please know that my indignation (expressed in post #1092) was issue of nothing more than your use of phrases and words such as; 'real world', 'real people', 'real life', 'reality', etc... If such was merely an unfortunate choice of words -- To wit: if your intent was merely expression of the opinion that we (i.e. @Aleph(0) and myself) ignore 'standard business protocol' as regards salvage operation then, speaking for myself, I regard 'the record' as amended

I'm probably wrong for using the phrase "real world", in this. It is the phrase tough that people from my station in life do use when talking about people in your "real world". Yours is the way you live, and is 'real' to you. Mine is the way I live and is 'real' to me.

That said, my world is closer to the way most of the population and I'd be willing to bet most of the members here live. You and Aleph, while I respect the both of you, through about the talk of amounts of money that is both unbelievable to me at least. Talking about 'dedicated substations' building a 'LINAC project'? Do you think this is how most of the rest of the forum lives and the projects they do and build???

It's not about, 'standard business protocol'. Maybe it's just the fact that I'm not at the two of you level of wealth and ability. But in 69 years I've lived and kept my head above water by struggling everyday. You seem to think you MAY have taken advantage of the scrappers. Believe me you didn't, or they wouldn't have done the job for you. I'm not sure, by the way both you and Adelph talk, that the dirtiest and physically hardest jobs get the lowest amount of pay. This is a fact in the 'real' world.

So if I have offended either of you in this, it was not my intention. It was though to say that your station in life is not the one most of the country or world is at. With all respect.

 

ATTN: @Aleph(0)

Should you require/desire upload of the Siemens 'generator' images this weekend, please advise no later than 23z today (7/15) -- Thanks!

As per your request, below is the (derived) schematic for the secondary circuit - as may be seen such is merely a conventional 'double Delon' configuration with provision for implementation of an EMF regulation loop (via Rdiv_N, Rdiv_P and C_Comp).
Please note that certain components (as drafted) represent physical 'compounds' (e.g. the loop compensation capacitor [C_Comp] is, in actuality, a string of 10 series-connected 160 pF caps) -- Similar considerations apply to the rectifiers....




Very best regards
HP

PS -- You're welcome

 

If someone knew he had what that someone wanted ... they can negotiate a price. If it exceeds scrap market value, they'd be a fool not to sell.

 

I'm probably wrong for using the phrase "real world", in this. It is the phrase tough that people from my station in life do use when talking about people in your "real world". Yours is the way you live, and is 'real' to you. Mine is the way I live and is 'real' to me.

Fair enough... -- While I must register my discomfort with the concept of "one's 'station in life" -- I won't belabour the issue lest 'words get in the way' again

Talking about 'dedicated substations' building a 'LINAC project'? Do you think this is how most of the rest of the forum lives and the projects they do and build???

--Emphasis Added--

Granting that 'EHT', Particle accelerators, IEC Fusors, etc... likely enjoy only a 'nich' following among electronics professionals, I expect the expense of said pursuits falls well within reach of the financial resources of fully credentialed, practicing EEs - albeit much less so that of students - hence our emphasis upon 'DIY' approaches to our projects -- FWIW @Jazz2C (as a student himself) has been invaluable in keeping us 'grounded in practicality' as regards the resource limits of typical undergrads

As regards 'dedicated substations' -- I feel that 1 MW 3-Phase service ('backed up' to at least 500kW) is essential equipment for any homeowner -but especially- to electrics/electronics enthusiasts/professionals! -- My $.02

You seem to think you MAY have taken advantage of the scrappers. Believe me you didn't, or they wouldn't have done the job for you.

In an earlier post on this thread you stated that your pre-retirement earnings ≈ $260 per day - clearly, you were badly taken advantage of! Yet, as I understand it, you had no option owing to the 'wage fixing cartel' that is the so called 'free market system'!
Point being; even highly skilled, highly intelligent people (such as yourself) must often accept much less than equitable arrangements due to 'market forces' -- I prefer to maintain a clear conscious via paying appropriately for work well done -- No! I'm no 'saint' - But neither am I a feudalist!

the dirtiest and physically hardest jobs get the lowest amount of pay. This is a fact in the 'real' world.

A sadly inarguable point indeed! -- My point is that such is neither just nor a 'paradigm' I wish to support -- hence my insistence upon equitable compensation of my employees/contractors...

So if I have offended either of you in this, it was not my intention. It was though to say that your station in life is not the one most of the country or world is at. With all respect.

No problem! -- I felt there was a misunderstanding 'in there' somewhere (hence my indictment of 'words and phrases' as the 'offending entities') - happily that's all there was to it! -- Words tend to 'get in the way' of all modes of human interaction - but nowhere to such extent nor with such regularly as in textual communication

Very best regards
HP

 

If someone knew he had what that someone wanted ... they can negotiate a price. If it exceeds scrap market value, they'd be a fool not to sell.

Indeed! You might be amazed at what some yards 'let go' for scrap value (Among other 'treasures', I've a 30 gallon tote filled to the brim with 'worthless plastic bricks' that happen to be functional 800V/1200A IGBTs)...

One person's 'junk'.... and all that

Very best regards
HP

 

I feel good work deserves fair pay! And $2k per day is just embarrassing -

Do you mean I could be a high school drop-out working out of the back of a pick-up truck and a quarter of a million a year (gross) is weak pay? I wish I could have got paid more than 1/10th of that for repairing the most sophisticated radios in the American Military inventory. (No, I was not in the military. I was working at the factory where the radios were designed and built.)

 

In an earlier post on this thread you stated that your pre-retirement earnings ≈ $260 per day - clearly, you were badly taken advantage of!

Not at all. I was envied by many doing the same type of job(die/mold maker) at smaller shops making half or even less than that.