Hi.
Anyone knows which defunct electric vehicle brand, model... can be a canibalizable donor to use its airconditioner transplanted to a camper, a boat, a cabin, to be powered on direct current ?
What voltage is the typical direct current supply needed ?

Any database of what manufacturers use in their cars ?

 

Possibly useful: https://carinterior.alibaba.com/buyingguides/tesla-ac-compressor-what-you-need-to-know

My understanding is that the A/C compressor is driven by the main battery directly (for max efficiency) and is therefore high voltage, like 350-400V. The fans and such of the HVAC system runs off the lower system voltage, 12V for many but now 48V in newer Teslas.

 

Anyone knows which defunct electric vehicle brand, model... can be a canibalizable donor to use its airconditioner transplanted to a camper, a boat, a cabin,

That would be a significant task, since you would need the motor/compressor, the evaporator, the condenser, two fans, repipeing the system, and then recharging it when completed.

A search turned up numerous AC units designed to operate from 12Vdc.
Or are those more money than you want to spend?
Note that 10k-12k BTU cooling capacity requires 40-60A from a 12V battery.

 

My recollection is that the very early 1960's Chrysler Imperial had an AC unit that seemed tobe a physically small, boxy looking home unit. It would still need an alternative to the engine driven compressor, though.
It is very likely that an alternative that would be both smaller and more effective will be a mains powered window unit with an inverter.

AS AN ALTERNATIVE, in the past few days I have seen repeatedly advertised small package device claaimed to magicly cools a single room, and selling for a quite low price. Evidently it is able to circumvent the basic laws of physics.

A DAYS LATER ADDITION: Aside from the systems in the new battery-electric cars, check with the sellers oftravel trailers. The very high end brands probably have what you seek.

 

Search for "Peltier Cooler". It is something like a heat pump without moving parts. I need to cool off something. These Peltier makes cold and hot. I ran water through the inside that went to a radiator to get rid of the heat. The aluminum block gets cold when 12V at 10A flows through the wires.

You can also get them like this. A heat sink and fans are added to get the cold out faster.

Many car-travel/camping refrigerators use this device.

 

Possibly useful: https://carinterior.alibaba.com/buyingguides/tesla-ac-compressor-what-you-need-to-know

My understanding is that the A/C compressor is driven by the main battery directly (for max efficiency) and is therefore high voltage, like 350-400V. The fans and such of the HVAC system runs off the lower system voltage, 12V for many but now 48V in newer Teslas.

Exactly!
But they don’t run directly from the high DC voltage, but from a 3 phase inverter.
This allows to drive the compressor at different speeds to obtain maximum efficiency.

 

...A search turned up numerous AC units designed to operate from 12Vdc.
Or are those more money than you want to spend?...

I do not have less than 40 VDC availability from a few dozens solar panels. Mostly 120VDC, 240VDC, 360VDC...

 

Regarding the PELTIER cooling devices: Before even getting excited about that scheme, learn enough to understand the power they require to remove a quantity of heat. The numbers will quickly show the reality of why we do not have PELTIER CYCLE Air Conditioning.
CERTAINLY it works, BUT the watts consumed to move the quantity of heat required to cool a room are quite a few.

 

With an adequate amount of electrical power available I use a small window AC unit to cool a small travel trailer.I have never seen, nor heard of, a DC powered sealed-unit refrigeration compressor. The "Peltier" Devices are an interesting concept but probably will not scale up to cooling even a small room for any reasonable price. I see that the costs numbers take it far out of my realm.

 

There are LOTS of DC-powered air conditioners (not counting the ones that claim to cool an entire office building in seconds using just the power from your USB port). But they are pretty much all targeted for auto and RV use, so they are either 12 V or 24 V. There's nothing that says you couldn't use a DC-DC converter to go from your 120 V DC down to 24 V DC, though I don't know how much a converter than can deliver the power needed would cost.

 

There are LOTS of DC-powered air conditioners (not counting the ones that claim to cool an entire office building in seconds using just the power from your USB port). But they are pretty much all targeted for auto and RV use, so they are either 12 V or 24 V. There's nothing that says you couldn't use a DC-DC converter to go from your 120 V DC down to 24 V DC, though I don't know how much a converter than can deliver the power needed would cost.

EVERY automotive AC cooling system in an engine powered car that I have come across has the refrigerant compressor directly driven by the I.C. engine. THAT has been the most cost effective way prior to EVs.
Has anyone seen a DC POWERED sealed unit refrigeration compressor?? Certainly it is possible with current technology, but not yet cost-effective for most folks.

 

Has anyone seen a DC POWERED sealed unit refrigeration compressor?? Certainly it is possible with current technology, but not yet cost-effective for most folks.

How about 12 VDC refrigerators and freezes as used in RVs? I am also seeing 12 VDC air conditioners for RVs. Typically well below $1,000.00 price points with refrigeration under $500.00.

Ron

 

Hi.
Anyone knows which defunct electric vehicle brand, model... can be a canibalizable donor to use its airconditioner transplanted to a camper, a boat, a cabin, to be powered on direct current ?
What voltage is the typical direct current supply needed ?

Any database of what manufacturers use in their cars ?

Go find a unit pulled from a RV. They use 12 VDC refrigerators, freezers and air conditioning. Just find a RV graveyard/boneyard.

Ron

 

EVERY automotive AC cooling system in an engine powered car that I have come across has the refrigerant compressor directly driven by the I.C. engine. THAT has been the most cost effective way prior to EVs.
Has anyone seen a DC POWERED sealed unit refrigeration compressor?? Certainly it is possible with current technology, but not yet cost-effective for most folks.

Who said I was talking about engine-driven air conditioners?

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=24+volt+...1:XCmOqAi/wX5iPTfUJQtDUbYj8+x2gDYggBp2Omo/qdg

 

I see a whole lot of specifications NOT STATED at all. Descriptions that would certainly lead me to walk away quickly.
Consider that to cool an area heat energy must be moved away. THAT is why most refrigeration systems have a hot section and a cold section. So my question is how do they get around the basic laws of physics?? Provide us with an explanation as to how the heat energy is moved out of the room. Heat transfer can be thru conduction, radiation, or even mass transfer.
All of them well defined and understood. So how do the miacle boxes do it???
Please explain!
Thanks for the post!

 

I see a whole lot of specifications NOT STATED at all. Descriptions that would certainly lead me to walk away quickly.
Consider that to cool an area heat energy must be moved away. THAT is why most refrigeration systems have a hot section and a cold section. So my question is how do they get around the basic laws of physics?? Provide us with an explanation as to how the heat energy is moved out of the room. Heat transfer can be thru conduction, radiation, or even mass transfer.
All of them well defined and understood. So how do the miacle boxes do it???
Please explain!
Thanks for the post!

I'm not saying that every single one of them is legit -- it's what was pulled up as a result of a five-second search on Amazon, after all. Most of them are either mini-split style, or mounted on the outside of the space to be cooled, such as on the roof of the vehicle or the back wall of a semi. How does a roof-mounted unit that vents heat out the top or sides and blows cold air down through the bottom violate the laws of physics. There are also 24 VDC window air conditioners there. Is it your contention that window air conditioners violated the laws of physics unless they are AC powered? Or are you just so dead set on insisting that DC powered air conditioning units don't exist that you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that perhaps they do, since you can't imagine anyone wanting to air condition a travel trailer or an RV when the engine isn't running, for instance.

 

I'm not saying that every single one of them is legit -- it's what was pulled up as a result of a five-second search on Amazon, after all. Most of them are either mini-split style, or mounted on the outside of the space to be cooled, such as on the roof of the vehicle or the back wall of a semi. How does a roof-mounted unit that vents heat out the top or sides and blows cold air down through the bottom violate the laws of physics. There are also 24 VDC window air conditioners there. Is it your contention that window air conditioners violated the laws of physics unless they are AC powered? Or are you just so dead set on insisting that DC powered air conditioning units don't exist that you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that perhaps they do, since you can't imagine anyone wanting to air condition a travel trailer or an RV when the engine isn't running, for instance.

Those ads failed to mention the other part of the split system, while you were honest about it. I regard showing only the evaporator half of the system as fraud by omission. Not mentioning the other portion of a split system is certainly hiding the truth.
AND, no, I dont deny DC systems are around. BUT I have not seen one installed anywhere. AND I am sure that every sealed coolant compressor must have some sort of inverter package that we do not see. consider that almost every electric motor depends on some form of a rotating magnetic field. That always requires more than "just plain DC."

 

Those ads failed to mention the other part of the split system, while you were honest about it. I regard showing only the evaporator half of the system as fraud by omission. Not mentioning the other portion of a split system is certainly hiding the truth.

Lots of those ads show both parts, as well as the plumbing components that are included with the kit.

AND, no, I dont deny DC systems are around. BUT I have not seen one installed anywhere.

So? There are lots of things that neither your nor I have seen installed anywhere. That doesn't mean they aren't common. I have seen numerous DC air conditioners, mostly in operations trailers out on test ranges or in flightline launch trucks. But, like I said, most DC-powered air conditioners that I'm aware of are targeting auto and RV markets, and hence are either 12 VDC or 24 VDC. That may change as EVs become even more mainstream and there is a demand for units that are better matched to EV battery voltages.

AND I am sure that every sealed coolant compressor must have some sort of inverter package that we do not see. consider that almost every electric motor depends on some form of a rotating magnetic field. That always requires more than "just plain DC."

So does the heater fan in a 1960 pickup have a hidden inverter in it? Rooftop air conditioners have been around for many decades. My uncle, when I was a kid, had one on top of their camping trailer because they spent summer traveling around Arizona visiting friends and relatives. Why should they have to use an inverter instead of a permanent-magnet DC motor? And even if it has an inverter package in it, so what? The TS is looking for an air conditioner that they can power from their available DC power options. What does it matter what it does with that supplied DC power?

 

If a motor running on DC does not have brushes and a comutator, then it has an inverter. Unless something totally new has been invented.
There is no issue about inverters for motors for DC power applications, because it will last much longer than the brushes. AND it is possibly more efficient. BUT it is "something new" and it does demand a bit of "special treatment." An inverter MUST HAVE the correct polarity, and it does demand preventing overheats. And if an inverter fails, that is the end. Repairing an inverter is not like replacing worn brushes.
AS FOR WHY would it need an inverter?? Only because of the way AC presently is implemented: Cooling is provided by using a refrigerant to transfer heat energy. The simple way to cool air is to remove the heat energy, and transferring that heat energy to a refrigerant is the simple way to do it at the scale useful for room cooling . Some other schemes can be more efficient but much less practical, more complex,and more costly, as well as being more complex to implement, and impossible to scale to useful levels. Use of a refrigerant almost always requires pumping and compressing that refrigerant, and that requires a compressor. In sealed systems that would be an AC motor driven sealed compressor powered by alternating current. I have seen a DC powered automotive AC compressor for an EV that never made it to market. That product was many years ahead of the adequate demand that could support EV production. The right product at the wrong time.
The company name: "Electric Fuel Propulsion" . I have no idea as to what became of it.