Design suggestions for Variable Ampliutude Variable Voltage Frequency Generator (10K Hz)

Thread Starter

Gumnuts

Joined Apr 26, 2024
35
After my last thread, I realised many things (thanks to all who contributed), updated my drawings accordingly, and am asking for guidance as to the component design I should use as a start in the design process. It is small circuit, and I've had some setbacks in engaging local designers, so I am attempting to design it myself. The circuit is shown below:Block V2.jpg
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
4,290
I don't remember the Voltage that You were attempting to generate across your Capacitor,
please refresh my memory.

How fast must the Capacitor be charged to
it's "Target-Voltage" ?, seconds ?, milliseconds ?, as fast as possible ?

Please describe, in detail, the Power-Supply that will be used for this project.

Please outline the amount of space/bulk available for this project,
must it be portable, or is it a bench-top-type experiment ?
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Thread Starter

Gumnuts

Joined Apr 26, 2024
35
I don't remember the Voltage that You were attempting to generate across your Capacitor,
please refresh my memory.

How fast must the Capacitor be charged to
it's "Target-Voltage" ?, seconds ?, milliseconds ?, as fast as possible ?

Please describe, in detail, the Power-Supply that will be used for this project.

Please outline the amount of space/bulk available for this project,
must it be portable, or is it a bench-top-type experiment?
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.
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1. The voltage across the Capacitor is one of the parameters I'm unsure of.
2. The Capacitor time-to-charge is not a constraint.
3. The Power Supply is yet to be specked-out.
4. For tesing purposes, the Capacitor is mounted into a 15lt container/pail with external screw connections. The circuit itself isn't that large at all. A bench-top arrangement.
 

Thread Starter

Gumnuts

Joined Apr 26, 2024
35
1. The voltage across the Capacitor is one of the parameters I'm unsure of.
2. The Capacitor time-to-charge is not a constraint.
3. The Power Supply is yet to be specked-out.
4. For tesing purposes, the Capacitor is mounted into a 15lt container/pail with external screw connections. The circuit itself isn't that large at all. A bench-top arrangement.
The Capacitor is cabled to the Circuit with a short harness.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
4,290
1. The voltage across the Capacitor is one of the parameters I'm unsure of.
2. The Capacitor time-to-charge is not a constraint.
3. The Power Supply is yet to be specked-out.
4. For tesing purposes, the Capacitor is mounted into a 15lt container/pail with external screw connections. The circuit itself isn't that large at all. A bench-top arrangement.
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It would seem that You don't know anything about this project ????????????

What purpose does it serve ?
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Thread Starter

Gumnuts

Joined Apr 26, 2024
35
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It would seem that You don't know anything about this project ????????????

What purpose does it serve ?
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1. The power supply will have to provide at least 40V DC, > than 5 Amps and hopefully the +5 VCC for the Frequency Generator part aslo.
2 . The purpose is to excite the demineralised water particles (the electrolytic fluid in the Capacitor) to generate Hydroxyl Radicals. These radicals have an incredible oxidative effect and will dissolve most organic compounds placed into the water.
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
9,255
You are going to use this to extract the electrolyte from a capacitor, which, of course destroys it? Wouldn’t it be better to start with the chemicals needed to do same?
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
4,290
I would like to know where You found this information / experiment.
Ancient History maybe ?, Middle-School-Science-Class back in the '60's ?
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Thread Starter

Gumnuts

Joined Apr 26, 2024
35
You are going to use this to extract the electrolyte from a capacitor, which, of course destroys it? Wouldn’t it be better to start with the chemicals needed to do same?
No, the hydroxyl radicals are EXTREMELY short lived. They cannot ‘be extracted’.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
4,290
If the Water is extremely perfect and pure, basically zero reactions will occur.

Pure-Water is an excellent insulator.

If You could create a large enough Voltage-differential across the Plates, "something" might happen.

I would suspect that the material used to make the "Capacitor"-Plates will
have everything to do with what "may", or "may-not", happen.

Nothing will happen if no Current flows,
and this would only indicate that the Water is not pure,
but contains some sort of contaminating material.

At some really extreme Voltage-level, You may get Hydrogen and Oxygen Bubbles,
but, at that exact same time,
You would have contaminated the Water with whatever material the Plates were made of,
and now You have a special "soup", instead of pure-Water.
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Thread Starter

Gumnuts

Joined Apr 26, 2024
35
If the Water is extremely perfect and pure, basically zero reactions will occur.

Pure-Water is an excellent insulator.

If You could create a large enough Voltage-differential across the Plates, "something" might happen.

I would suspect that the material used to make the "Capacitor"-Plates will
have everything to do with what "may", or "may-not", happen.

Nothing will happen if no Current flows,
and this would only indicate that the Water is not pure,
but contains some sort of contaminating material.

At some really extreme Voltage-level, You may get Hydrogen and Oxygen Bubbles,
but, at that exact same time,
You would have contaminated the Water with whatever material the Plates were made of,
and now You have a special "soup", instead of pure-Water.
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Thanks for your input
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
4,290
Since that's the case,
the only things left are precision spacing of the Plates / Tubes,
so that that isn't an unknown variable.

Then, assuming that You don't want to create Hydrogen and Oxygen,
huge amounts of Voltage will need to be thrown at it,
while continuously visually observing any reactions that may occur,
and taking test samples for analysis every few minutes,
and replacing the samples with new purified Water.

Monitoring the Temperature vs Mass of the Water would be another important indicator
that the Water is becoming conductive,
after X-amount of time, at X-Thousands of Volts.

Voltage and Current can also be monitored with an Oscilloscope.

I would recommend using a High-Output Aftermarket-Ignition-Coil.
Filtering is not necessary.
The Coil that I have in mind has completely isolated Primary and Secondary-Windings.
And, if I remember correctly, it has a 1 to ~400 Turns-Ratio,
and relies on Flyback to generate extremely High-Voltages,
and is normally driven by a matching ~500-Volt Capacitive-Discharge-Ignition-System.

A couple of very long, series-connected, strings of High-Voltage-Diodes
will be required for DC in the range of ~50,000-Volts or so.

If both "Plates" or "Tubes" are made of the same material,
rectified DC-Voltage will not be required, AC-Voltage will deliver the same results,
as this is not actually a "Polarized-Capacitor" designed for storing Voltage.

A well versed Chemist would have to determine if the materials used
may be made of the same material, ( AC-Voltage is OK ), or
that they must be made of differing materials, ( DC-Voltage is required ).

The Frequency and the Waveform used to pump the Coil is completely irrelevant to the Process.

The Peak-Current used to pump the Coil will determine the output Flyback-Voltage.

The Aftermarket-Ignition-Coil will also function as a
semi-low-frequency, standard Transformer if driven by a smoothish Waveform like a Sine-Wave.

And if everything goes right,
You may have a repeatable process for creating a very powerful and dangerous Oxidizer.
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