Recently saw an article attempting to tie the large downturn in cellular activity in china to the actual number of unreported deaths there. Not something I would think to equate but makes sense. The premise was that it was due to china massively under-reporting CV19 deaths and that it was reflected by the sudden downturn in cell activity coinciding with the outbreak.

 

Recently saw an article attempting to tie the large downturn in cellular activity in china to the actual number of unreported deaths there. Not something I would think to equate but makes sense. The premise was that it was due to china massively under-reporting CV19 deaths and that it was reflected by the sudden downturn in cell activity coinciding with the outbreak.

Changes in lifestyles (job, social and lock-down restrictions) are likely more responsible than vast numbers of unreported deaths beyond the expected government under-counts.

 

Changes in lifestyles (job, social and lock-down restrictions) are likely more responsible than vast numbers of unreported deaths beyond the expected government under-counts.

In my limited experience with a bunch of daughters and grand kids, I'd say some types of cell activity in the US have increased dramatically. Case on point, my oldest grandson started college last week, His sister, with whom he is very close, has been in contact with him constantly since dropping him off. Keeps my daughter (his mother) and his sister from being in tears. Kleenex, like TP, is in short supply.

 

Actually, with lockdown restrictions, I would expect cell activity to increase. I know it certainly has with my wife and her friends and our relatives.

 

I too remember those claims and looked into it back then. That why I gave the answer I did.

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8717250566

CLAIM: Drop in cellphone users in China is proof that the coronavirus has killed 21 million in the country, far more than the official count.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The decline in cellphone users is not linked to the number of people who died after being infected with coronavirus. Major cellphone carriers in China attributed the drop to people with multiple phone numbers canceling some service during the outbreak.

THE FACTS: Major cellphone carriers in China reported a loss of nearly 21 million subscriptions in January and February as the virus spread in the country.

 

I too remember those claims and looked into it back then. That why I gave the answer I did.

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8717250566

I'm not so sure said "fact" completely discards covid's deaths as the cause of the drop of the number of cell phone users.

Besides, if said info originates in China's official sources then it simply cannot be trusted.

 

Scott Atlas is not a governor (or even dog-catcher) of a state so his ideas are as powerful ( ) as yours and mine

Dr. Scott Atlas may be in disagreement with earlier advisors,

Maybe you two should talk to each other.

Nsa, his ideas are more powerful, he has the correct ear. Jpanhalt, he doesn't talk to the papers, doesn't have to, talking on Fox got him where he is now, all he needed.

I'm pushing my luck talking to you guy's, only one side is allowed in this thread, and it isn't mine.

 

Maybe you two should talk to each other.

Nsa, his ideas are more powerful, he has the correct ear. Jpanhalt, he doesn't talk to the papers, doesn't have to, talking on Fox got him where he is now, all he needed.

I'm pushing my luck talking to you guy's, only one side is allowed in this thread, and it isn't mine.

Stop the only one side is allowed in this thread, it's not true and is annoying.

 

Except that this was recent. Their explanation for the downturn sounds reasonable except for the fact that it was not observed in other stricken countries. It could be possibly due to the level of already in place landline capabilities in other countries being much more saturated than the infrastructure in china? And any explanation for the downturn coming from china I would have to consider a bit suspect as to it's actual validity knowing their past proclamations.

 

I'm not so sure said "fact" completely discards covid's deaths as the cause of the drop of the number of cell phone users.

Besides, if said info originates in China's official sources then it simply cannot be trusted.

I think it eliminates that millions are missing in China from Covid-19. Even NK would have a problem hiding that many bodies without detection from most commercial imaging birds. I think the official Chinese numbers are off by a huge amount but not millions.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2769771

We observed that urban counties with higher populations and a higher number of cases per unit population saw a larger relative decline in activity outside of place of residence and a greater increase in residential activity after the institution of stay-at-home orders. An increase in workplace activity and reduction in residential activity over time since the institution of stay-at-home orders suggests waning adherence to the orders over time. Additionally, this study demonstrated that cell phone activity in different counties is associated with case growth rates at 5, 10, and 15 days later, suggesting that these measures may be useful in monitoring and identifying areas at risk for more rapid rates of growth in new cases during the epidemic.

 

Stop the only one side is allowed in this thread, it's not true and is annoying.

Have you been banned from it? Even for saying things that definitely come from your side of the fence.

 

Have you been banned from it? Even for saying things that definitely come from your side of the fence.

You get banned for arguing this type of me vs the bad world nonsense, not for posting on-topic counterpoints with a different point of view.

 

@Tesla23
The proposed mRNA vaccine infects your cells (various mechanisms are used) with a novel synthetic mRNA. It is currently believed that does not affect your somatic genome. How long does it persist in the cells? Apparently for a long time based on studies in tissue cultures of other mRNA, but I found no data from the current clinical trials of the coronavirus mRNA vaccine. Remember, our genome consists of nuclear DNA from both parents and RNA from the mother.

I thought you might like to consider that in light of your fear of coronavirus RNA in your system.

Thanks for the references.

I think I have a rough understanding of the basic mechanism, particularly about the persistence - which I assume is good for long term immunity, but which separates this vaccine type from other technologies. I will study it further if I have to make any choices down the line, and presumably there will be more information available then.

I don't fear the coronavirus, it is what it is. I just think it is wise, if possible, to try to avoid letting it run wild in your body whilst your immune system develops some response and hopefully immunity. As to whether I should have a novel vaccine (if it is the only option) to treat a novel virus, for me at my (let's call it mature) stage of life, then if the vaccine has passed phase 3 trials with no safety concerns then I think it is probably a simple decision. For younger folk maybe the decision is more difficult if the long term effects of the vaccine are unknown, but as I said before, hopefully there will be more information available, and we would be able to listen to a wider range of experts, and by then we will have a better idea of the sequelae.

 

hi Tesla,
It is the long term after effects on a persons health, long after they have been discharged from the hospital, including 20 to 40 year old's, that I find a cause for concern.
The burden on the health care systems is going to be long term, even when a certified vaccine is available

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ovid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

E

 

hi Tesla,
It is the long term after effects on a persons health, long after they have been discharged from the hospital, including 20 to 40 year old's, that I find a cause for concern.
The burden on the health care systems is going to be long term, even when a certified vaccine is available

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ovid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

E

I agree. I find it amazing that with this sort of emerging evidence that, in countries where the virus is raging relatively out of control, there is not more demand to reduce infections. If there is significant long-term morbidity then some of the current policies will be judged harshly in hindsight, both in terms of the personal and economic cost.

 

hi,
If any member wishes to discuss Moderation actions, he/she must use a Conversation/PM with Admin or Moderation in order to resolve any issues.

Moderation.

 

I agree. I find it amazing that with this sort of emerging evidence that, in countries where the virus is raging relatively out of control, there is not more demand to reduce infections. If there is significant long-term morbidity then some of the current policies will be judged harshly in hindsight, both in terms of the personal and economic cost.

I'm not amazed at the ability of humans to push back the possibility of even immediate death because I've seen it first hand with drug abuse.

The question is what are the proper countermeasures to reduce infections to what level in the areas that need it in countries that cover vast areas with vast population density differences and other factors. Elimination or zero virus infections are possible in some cases of near total isolation for limited periods of time but eventually humans (you must account for this with any democratic policy) will rationalize the added risk of some level of infection when faced with long term social and economic isolation in areas with little short-term personal risk from infection locally. The virus IMO is NOT raging relatively out of control in large parts of America, there are hot spots (like College Towns filled with young people and economies dependent on those young people for survival) within a vast expanse of little or no infection. I know it's popular but this notion the all of America is out of control is as erroneous as saying all of Australia in out of control because of Victoria hot-spots.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/ne...cle_df400178-de64-11ea-9eec-8f4e8e14e00d.html

 

Thanks for the references.

I think I have a rough understanding of the basic mechanism, particularly about the persistence - which I assume is good for long term immunity, but which separates this vaccine type from other technologies. I will study it further if I have to make any choices down the line, and presumably there will be more information available then.

I don't fear the coronavirus, it is what it is. I just think it is wise, if possible, to try to avoid letting it run wild in your body whilst your immune system develops some response and hopefully immunity. As to whether I should have a novel vaccine (if it is the only option) to treat a novel virus, for me at my (let's call it mature) stage of life, then if the vaccine has passed phase 3 trials with no safety concerns then I think it is probably a simple decision. For younger folk maybe the decision is more difficult if the long term effects of the vaccine are unknown, but as I said before, hopefully there will be more information available, and we would be able to listen to a wider range of experts, and by then we will have a better idea of the sequelae.

Not

hi Tesla,
It is the long term after effects on a persons health, long after they have been discharged from the hospital, including 20 to 40 year old's, that I find a cause for concern.
The burden on the health care systems is going to be long term, even when a certified vaccine is available

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ovid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

E

Not comparing it to flu, but it is amazing how much is taken for granted about current diseases in circulation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596521/

 

Russian Vaccine getting push-back.
Putin's vaccine meets opposition from frontline workers in Russia
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-workers-in-russia/ar-BB18KUcx?ocid=msedgntp

 

The virus IMO is NOT raging relatively out of control in large parts of America, there are hot spots (like College Towns filled with young people and economies dependent on those young people for survival) within a vast expanse of little or no infection. I know it's popular but this notion the all of America is out of control is as erroneous as saying all of Australia in out of control because of Victoria hot-spots.

There is clearly some control as the growth is no longer exponential, but the US is not doing as well as some comparable countries that did a similar strategy - some shutdowns followed by reopening:



From: Oxford University Coronavirus Data. I like the Oxford site as they do the sensible thing and allow you to divide the raw figures by the population.

I think that in any discussion of the potential cost of long term morbidity it is reasonable to point out that the US may have more exposure than others. Of all the other countries shown, France clearly has an emerging problem.

I know that comparing confirmed cases between countries is somewhat problematic as they have different testing criteria, this was certainly true during the first wave (the UK was certainly undertesting relative to others), but during the last three or so months where testing is widely available, the US positivity rate has been significantly higher than others, suggesting if anything that they are catching less cases than the others.

Apart from that, I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

I wish you well, I hope that you all stay safe and your cases drop further and that my concern about sequelea proves to be unfounded.