@jpanhalt

Have you read the CDC report?

There are sixteen studies from across the world that support the belief of the efficacy of masks. Should take a while for you to read them all.

 

That report is just more of the same. The PNAS report (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117) is garbage. I will read and comment in detail on up to 3 (three) reports with data that you believe show masks reduce transmission of Covid-19. The only exception is that I will not waste my time reviewing anything in detail from a single party state (e.g., China, North Korea, Vietnam).

 

Having antibodies to lots of infectious agents does not guarantee immunity, nor does any antibiotic ensure cure.

What have antibiotics to do with antibodies? Two completely different things. Antibiotics don't work against viruses -- only bacteria.

 

What have antibiotics to do with antibodies? Two completely different things. Antibiotics don't work against viruses -- only bacteria.

That was an oblique reference to Dr. Fauci's comment early on that hydroxychloroqine was not 100% effective; therefore, it shouldn't be used. My point in the comment (if you understood it) is that neither vaccines nor antibiotics, our major weapon against infectious diseases, are 100% effective. Fauci's argument would best be described as a straw man argument. Polio has been eradicated, but the vaccine(s), while extremely effective, were not 100% effective.

Edit: I used the casual term "antibiotic" to refer to antibiotic, antimicrobial, anti-parasitic, or antiviral (even anti-prion should they exist). I hope that transgression doesn't offend you.

 

Hi Eric,

Yeah you are right
IT is such a shame though because my friend i intended to visit is having some difficult problems and i really need to be there. I feel like my wings are tied.

Al, I can appreciate your desire to help your friend but for now I would just chill in NJ. Then too I don't know what is safer, NJ or CA? Anyway, I would just sit tight right now with your concerns. Listen to yourself on this one.

Ron

 

Treatment is not going to be cheap...
Covid-19 Drug Remdesivir to Cost $3,120 for Typical Patient
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...3-120-for-typical-patient-11593428402?tesla=y

 

That was an oblique reference to Dr. Fauci's comment early on that hydroxychloroqine was not 100% effective; therefore, it shouldn't be used. My point in the comment (if you understood it) is that neither vaccines nor antibiotics, our major weapon against infectious diseases, are 100% effective. Fauci's argument would best be described as a straw man argument. Polio has been eradicated, but the vaccine(s), while extremely effective, were not 100% effective.

Edit: I used the casual term "antibiotic" to refer to antibiotic, antimicrobial, anti-parasitic, or antiviral (even anti-prion should they exist). I hope that transgression doesn't offend you.

Hi,

Yes, he has made a number of comments that are so unrealistic and dont fit the scenario anyway. That would be just one of them.
Right now anything that is even just 50 percent effective would be worth a try.
They have said at one time they we couldnt open up until a vaccine was ready (har har har har har). That's just nuts.
Yeah it is funny how many people seem to think that a vaccine cures everyone who gets it for good, but even when it is effective sometimes it only lasts a year or two. Luckily some of them last many years.

Last i read the studies on hydroxychloroquine were not very reliable possibly due to politics, but now there is new testing being done.
There is new vaccine testing being done on humans now so maybe there is more hope.

 

Treatment is not going to be cheap...
Covid-19 Drug Remdesivir to Cost $3,120 for Typical Patient
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...3-120-for-typical-patient-11593428402?tesla=y

So for 1 million people that would be over 3 billion. for 100 million people over 300 billion, and for 400 million people over 1.2 trillion. Yikes.

 

I hope that transgression doesn't offend you.

Same about my pedanticim. Words mean things.

 

hi Al,
From what I can see from watching your local TV news networks, this virus is spiralling out of control.

It is obvious from your dilemma that your gut reaction is telling you not endanger your life by taking an unnecessary risk, listen to your gut, it's served you well so far.

Eric

I think what's happening is a serious but normal outbreak cycle for a extremely infectious virus.
https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Coronavirus-mutation-has-taken-over-the-world-15373472.php

Studying both versions of the gene using a proxy virus in a petri dish of human cells, Choe and her colleagues found that viruses with the G variant had more spike proteins, and the outer parts of those proteins were less likely to break off. This made the virus approximately 10 times more infectious in the lab experiment.

The mutation does not seem to lead to worse outcomes in patients. Nor did it alter the virus's response to antibodies from patients who had the D variant, Choe said, suggesting that vaccines being developed based on the original version of the virus will be effective against the new strain.

Choe has uploaded a manuscript describing this study to the website BioRxiv, where scientists can post "preprint" research that has not yet been peer reviewed. She has also submitted the paper to an academic journal, which has not yet published it.

The distinctive infectiousness of the G strain is so strong that scientists have been drawn to the mutation even when they weren't looking for it.

Neville Sanjana, a geneticist at the New York Genome Center and New York University, was trying to figure out which genes enable SARS-CoV-2 to infiltrate human cells. But in experiments based on a gene sequence taken from an early case of the virus in Wuhan, he struggled to get that form of the virus to infect cells. Then the team switched to a model virus based on the G variant.

"We were shocked," Sanjana said. "Voilà! It was just this huge increase in viral transduction." They repeated the experiment in many types of cells, and every time the variant was many times more infectious.

The big difference is now we have high fidelity testing and tracing to see what happens at near real-time during a 'flu' like outbreak. It looks much worse than normal because this time we are picking up many more than just the very sick as a group of infected. If deaths start to spike in a week or two then we really have a problem with the virus and younger people (less than 50) as the the majority of earlier deaths were much older (70 plus).

 

[...] and for 400 billion people over 1.2 trillion. Yikes.

The ah...current global population is less than 8 billion, Sir.

 

The ah...current global population is less than 8 billion, Sir.

Yeah i meant 400 million, just a little higher than the population of the US.
Either that or since i last checked there were a LOT of new babies born

 

Comparing the costs of hydroxychloroquine (negligable) with Remdesivir (thousands $US) may explain why somebody in the medical industry keeps badmouthing the affordable solution.

 

Comparing the costs of hydroxychloroquine (negligable) with Remdesivir (thousands $US) may explain why somebody in the medical industry keeps badmouthing the affordable solution.

One can never neglect such factors. Cheap and fast solutions are sometimes ignored in the US for more "sophisticated" solutions that are marginally better. Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) studies are hard to interpret and at least one that panned the drug was outright fake. What was that motive? The other problem with HCQ is that it was proposed both as prophylaxis and as treatment. Mixing those purposes adds to confusion.

A lot of change has happened. Corticosteroids were at first said to be contraindicated, because they blunt our reaction to infections. Unfortunately, severe lung damage done by Covid-19 seems to have been ignored by those researchers, but ICU doctors used them anyway to treat clinical symptoms and ameliorate lung damage. Thus, improving survival. Now, they appear to be mainstream as are other immunomodulators (https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2500114-treatment#d14 ).

 

Comparing the costs of hydroxychloroquine (negligable) with Remdesivir (thousands $US) may explain why somebody in the medical industry keeps badmouthing the affordable solution.

Yeah and that is over 3000 USD per dose!
That means a single patient treatment could run very very high.
One dose per day for 10 days is 30000 USD using that rounded figure.

 

The per dose was less than $200, the figure was for the average number of doses per treatment. Note that was US cost which is the highest per dose. It is marketed for considerably less in other countries.
Arghh! The article wants you to sign in to read the complete article, sorry...

 

The per dose was less than $200, the figure was for the average number of doses per treatment. Note that was US cost which is the highest per dose. It is marketed for considerably less in other countries.
Arghh! The article wants you to sign in to read the complete article, sorry...

Yes i got that from the news and they must have misquoted someone else.
I didnt find the cost today but mack in May it was 1000 USD per pill. I dont know if that varies per the individual person though and i guess it could change again.
So i guess they are banking on 15 or so pills per patient.

BTW thanks for correcting that figure.

 

Al, I can appreciate your desire to help your friend but for now I would just chill in NJ. Then too I don't know what is safer, NJ or CA? Anyway, I would just sit tight right now with your concerns. Listen to yourself on this one.

Ron

Hi Ron,

I have heard now that Los Angeles is going through a surge in virus cases too, and i would probably be landing at LAX. So i would be spending 6 hours with strangers confined to a small space with impossible social distancing and then land smack dab in the heart of a virus surge.
It's becoming apparent that it is not a good idea right now, but geeze this is starting to mess up my friendship.

I hope someone comes up with a way to fix this, and soon. This is a mess for travelers.

I wonder if there are any statistics available for air flight travelers vs contracting the virus.
One thing they do is they filter the air in the cabin every 4 or 5 minutes with a HEPA filter system.
HEPA filters are certified to remove 99.97 percent of the corona virus particles.
Maybe we need masks with built in HEPA filters.
OR maybe a mask with built in UVc LEDs. Unfortunately i could not find any reasonably priced UVc LEDs.

 

(Some text removed for clarity)
OR maybe a mask with built in UVc LEDs. Unfortunately i could not find any reasonably priced UVc LEDs.

Now THAT is a hot product idea!

 

hi Dick,
I understand that research shows that a copper surface kills the virus almost immediately.

I was considering trying a face mask that has a copper mesh [ pan scrubber ] washable insert.

Do you have any information on the copper claim.?

E