Coronavirus?!

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MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
2,767
How quickly we forget though...

Just a few things from last year:

https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/chaos-...atient-death-sask-nurses-union-says-1.4673973

https://www.vicnews.com/news/infogr...-hospitals-are-in-fraser-valley-northern-b-c/

The lower article talks about area where I live. It is very large with low population density and very limited resources. Our hospital was always overcapacity because they could not discharge patients due to lack of support services. When COVID "hit" (we got our first case a few weeks ago BTW), they emptied out the hospital. I cannot help but wonder about what happened to those people as we did not really get more support services.

I expect more people dying in near future from unadressed chronic issues etc.
You should just proclaim all is lost, then, apparently, nothing will be lost. I don't know if that is true but I read it somewhere.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
439
You should just proclaim all is lost, then, apparently, nothing will be lost. I don't know if that is true but I read it somewhere.
Was it on the internet? Very insightful.

Everything is for the best in this best of possible worlds. Perhaps you read that somewhere also.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,305
One of my crazy neighbors thought they would either impress us or he was just that stupid, not a spark plug but an electric fence.

We couldn’t stop laughing.

kv
Yeah, well, "pissing on spark plugs" is about where we are now WRT trying to control Wuhan.

And it ain't funny.
 

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
836
Yeah, well, "pissing on spark plugs" is about where we are now WRT trying to control Wuhan.

And it ain't funny.
We’ve all came a long way, a year almost considering we don’t have an actual date of the infection, we need to learn that we can’t take control over a virus, but we will need to learn to live with it. I reject your reality and insert my own, humor is something we all need right now. It’s up to you to do what you and yours needs to do.

kv
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
"A virus doesn't care about which bathroom you use — but it does care if the bathroom is hygienic."

Looks like mask usage and restrictions in ND is having the desired effect.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/north-dakota/

https://www.grandforksherald.com/ne...eports-7-COVID-19-deaths-drop-in-active-cases
The North Dakota Department of Health added to November's total on Monday, Nov. 30, announcing seven COVID-19 deaths. Despite the darkness of the last 30 days, there's a glimmer of light on the horizon — the state reported an overall drop in active cases on Monday for the eighth straight day.
 
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MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
2,767

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
9,237
and just think how much it would have declined if there was proof that masks work.
Why would proof that masks work result in a significant decline in infections? Those not wearing masks wouldn’t believe any such proof. And they would continue to become infected.
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,768
Masks are confusing...

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

This study I find has some good input on why.
From the abstract:

This systematic review and meta-analysis supports the use of respiratory protection. However, the existing evidence is sparse and findings are inconsistent within and across studies. Multicentre RCTs with standardized protocols conducted outside epidemic periods would help to clarify the circumstances under which the use of masks or respirators is most warranted.
What I'm understanding is that the jury's still out there on mask usage. But I see nothing wrong on enforcing their use... lots to gain and very little to lose.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
From the abstract:



What I'm understanding is that the jury's still out there on mask usage. But I see nothing wrong on enforcing their use... lots to gain and very little to lose.
Even if the masks virus blocking protection is marginal in isolation the modification of human behaviors into forced awareness of the transmission threat while wearing the mask is an overall positive. That combined with other measures to force modification of behaviors into smaller and smaller sets of human interactions with the already infected as been proven effective in breaking the exponential increase in cases for at least some period of time. How long and how many times this can be repeated is still to be found.
 

MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
2,767
  • A mask either helps prevent infection or it does not. Reason alone cannot decide between the two alternatives
  • A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up
  • You must wager. It is not optional. Any attempt not to wager is ultimately expressed in your actions.
  • Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that masks help prevent infection.
    - If masks don't help and you elect not to wear one, your gain is nothing, your loss is nothing.
    - If masks don't help and you elect to wear one, your gain is nothing, your loss is finite and trivial.
    - If masks do help and you elect not to wear one, your loss is infinite (your life, your children's lives and your yet-to-be-conceived grandchildren and so on and so forth.
    - If you elect to wear one and they help, your gain is nothing and your loss is nothing.

Google "Pascal's wager" - and a strange paradox will emerge.
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,768
the modification of human behaviors into forced awareness of the transmission threat while wearing the mask is an overall positive.
very true... masks can also help remind its users not to touch their faces, and in doing so it also helps remind them to keep their hands clean at all times...
 

xox

Joined Sep 8, 2017
936
A number of anti-science (personal assessment? posters have quoted Sweden to support their position against lockdowns. The Swedish experiment has proved to be a big failure.
Are you sure about that? A comparison of death rates:

UK: 59,051 / 63,182,000 = 0.0934%
Italy: 56,361 / 60,300,000 = 0.0934%
USA: 276,979 / 330,052,960 = 0.0839%
France: 53,506 / 64,898,000 = 0.0824%
Sweden: 6,972 / 10,343,403 = 0.0674%

(Source: Wikipedia, Worldometer)

Also interesting to note that the US death rate for the flu in 2018 was 61,000 / 330,052,960 = 0.0184%. In other words, about a fifth as dangerous as Covid. The Spanish Flu by comparison killed about 675,000 / 98,800,000 = 0.683%, or 37 times more deadly than the common flu.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
18,108
Maybe we should start a pool, to predict the bottom date and/or level. I'll take a stab: Bottom = 12,000 on December 4 of 2020.
Call me wild-eyed optimist.
So much for my prediction from March 21, 2020. The DJIA bottomed at 18,592 just two days later. Today it's 29,798.

Those were dark days back in March, before we knew how infectious it is, how to treat the disease, and no vaccine on the horizon. I was heavily influenced by a fantastic book about the 1918 flu, "The Great Influenza". What a relief that the current flu is trivial compared to that one.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
A number of anti-science (personal assessment? posters have quoted Sweden to support their position against lockdowns. The Swedish experiment has proved to be a big failure.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...NUYCO23gvOavAxpRudRjxTIadPLGerwz3XtkhiyeiYjYM
I think Sweden's approach has been misunderstand as against government lockdowns. For some, it's the worry of excessive government restrictions by the threat of physical and financial force that drive an examination of what Sweden has done. For Sweden, their 'constitution' limits the ability of government to make laws that limit the citizens freedom. They had plenty of restrictions there were voluntary with a very high compliance rate among it's citizens. This lesser strategy worked until environmental conditions dictated stricter voluntary conditions today. The US strategy is also a big failure in locations with really cracked down with strict restrictions from the beginning like California.

https://fortune.com/2020/11/04/sweden-restrictions-winter-covid-cases-rising/

Sweden’s latest measures still take the form of recommendations, meaning people don’t face legal consequences if they ignore them. But Lofven said he wasn’t just handing out “some kind of friendly, general advice.”
“It is expected that everyone who is subject to these recommendations will follow them all day, every day,” he said.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2020/11/30/california-coronavirus-updates-november-2020/

California’s COVID-19 case numbers and hospitalizations are now worse than at any point during the pandemic. Health officials say 12 percent of new cases will likely end up as hospitalizations within two weeks.

Based on those trends, Newsom says intensive care units at California hospitals will be over capacity by mid-December.
 
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nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55145696

The UK has become the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, paving the way for mass vaccination.
Britain's medicines regulator, the MHRA, says the jab, which offers up to 95% protection against Covid-19 illness, is safe to be rolled out.
The first doses are already on their way to the UK, with 800,000 due in the coming days, Pfizer said.
Health Secretary Matt Hancock said the NHS will contact people about jabs.
Elderly people in care homes and care home staff have been placed top of the priority list, followed by over-80s and health and care staff.
 
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