I don't feel the need to intentionally break the TOS at any point, but the more I read threads around this forum, the more I run into people breaking the TOS and having their threads locked. Many cases it appears to be for what to me, appears to be borderline ridiculous rules.
Is there some method to this madness? So many extremely specific rules, its like reading canadian law...

 

Be patient, grasshopper.

Can you translate "coles notes?"

John

 

Be patient, grasshopper.

Can you translate "coles notes?"

John

Max.

 

"Cliff's Notes"?

Edit: It seems I am ignorant about this.

 

Proper nouns should be capitalized. I don't think the grammar of the TOS is the cause of Travm's discontent.

John

 

Sure.
For many years this forum was owned by an individual. He alone was the sole arbiter of what was allowed and what was not. He made this decision ostensibly on the basis of what might represent a liability should he be sued by an injured member. About two years ago he transferred his ownership to an online media company. This eliminated his personal responsibility for the content. At that time the rules on some subjects were loosened, specifically automotive modifications. You will note however that connecting to the mains without a transformer is still forbidden.

You don't have to like the rules and you are completely free to vote with your feet or whatever the online equivalent of feet happens to be.

 

Max.

BAHAHAHA! Best response ever.

Coles Notes, I believe is a Canadian thing, which is why you may not know about it. I have to remember there is a world outside Canada sometimes...

I'm not trying to be critical, just have never in my few years, seen a community quite like this on the internet. I wondered if there was something like the liability concern that drove some of these rules.
That should be taken as a compliment. Insults will be in another thread.

 

I wondered if there was something like the liability concern that drove some of these rules.

Sort of but it's more an excuse based on ignorance of internet liability laws and some peoples pride being too much to let the reality of what is really dangerous Vs what is falsely credited to being dangerous and already in the public access domain of the internet fully seat into this forum.

For example.
You can't' discus powering an simple LED off of a mains power circuit with an unisolated capacitive coupled power circuit (Capacitor plus LED plus diode equals death) because suposedly it will get people killed yet you can openly discuss using a multi tens of kilo ampere utility transformer in reverse to build a 10,000 + volt DC multi tens of Kilowatt power supply without raising an eyebrow on the reasons that since the primary of said transformer isolating the 'dangerous 120 or 240 VAC utility input power' from the HV high current 'instant vaporization of flesh and death' secondary power it's now okay and thusly safe.

Basically don't talk about toothpicks because they have the potential for the really stupid to poke themselves in the eye and cause mild discomfort but feel free to discuss giant whirling blades of instant death machines because you have your safety glasses on.

 

I have to remember there is a world outside Canada sometimes...

There's really a Canada? I thought that it was just a myth... Someplace we told children that we would send them if they misbehaved, or didn't eat their vegetables, or wouldn't go to sleep.

 

There's really a Canada? I thought that it was just a myth... Someplace we told children that we would send them if they misbehaved, or didn't eat their vegetables, or wouldn't go to sleep.

...Or go to if Trump gets in!
Max.

 

...Or go to if Trump gets in!
Max.

Right now, you have over 100 million Americans and 265 million guns protecting your Southern border. If Trump gets in, we will send you a bill!
John

 

Just don't send us Miley Cyrus, she has threatened to move countries if he gets in.
Max.

 

There's really a Canada? I thought that it was just a myth... Someplace we told children that we would send them if they misbehaved, or didn't eat their vegetables, or wouldn't go to sleep.

Yes, send us your children. The polar bears are getting hungry due to climate change.

 

I'm not trying to be critical, just have never in my few years, seen a community quite like this on the internet.

Never seen a community like this one? ... wait 'till you get to know some of its members a little better ...

 

Yes, send us your children. The polar bears are getting hungry due to climate change.

You'll fit in just fine.

 

let the reality of what is really dangerous Vs what is falsely credited to being dangerous and already in the public access domain of the internet fully seat into this forum.

The environmental conditions that gets one's body resistance to the point where 100 mA can flow through your body varies. When your at 500 kilo-ohms, that's a measly 50 kV. When your at 350 ohms, that's 35V. So, "dangerous voltages" is dependent. I wouldn't used the conditions where I am as the standard for someone in the Maldives, or the upper latitudes of North Dakota.

Your safety is in your domain. We could ignore all rules, and that would include the ethics of organizations that one may be a member. If you had an apprentice, you would be concerned with their safety.

Everyone needs to remember ... the ASS they save maybe their own. A 900V 300 mA supply can hold a 200 lb man for over three seconds, empirically speaking. The body resistance at that time did not permit 300 mA current flow.

There is a chart on this ebook page http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-3/ohms-law-again/

From: NEETS Module 1, Chapter 1, Electrical Safety
The danger of shock from a 450-volt ac electrical service system is well recognized by operating personnel. This is shown by the relatively low number of reports of serious shock received from this voltage, despite its widespread use. On the other hand, a number of fatalities have been reported due to contact with low-voltage circuits. Despite a fairly widespread, but totally unfounded, popular belief to the contrary, low-voltage circuits (115 volts and below) are very dangerous and can cause death when the resistance of the body is lowered. Fundamentally, current, rather than voltage, is the measure of shock intensity. The passage of even a very small current through a vital part of the human body can cause DEATH. The voltage necessary to produce the fatal current is dependent upon the resistance of the body, contact conditions, the path through the body, etc. For example, when a 60-hertz alternating current, is passed through a human body from hand to hand or from hand to foot, and the current is gradually increased, it will cause the following effects: At about 1 milliampere (0.001 ampere), the shock can be felt; at about 10 milliamperes (0.01 ampere), the shock is of sufficient intensity to prevent voluntary control of the muscles; and at about 100 milliamperes (0.1 ampere) the shock is fatal if it lasts for 1 second or more. The above figures are the results of numerous investigations and are approximate because individuals differ in their resistance to electrical shock. It is most important to recognize that the resistance of the human body cannot be relied upon to prevent a fatal shock from 115 volts or less— FATALITIES FROM VOLTAGES AS LOW AS 30 VOLTS HAVE BEEN RECORDED. Tests have shown that body resistance under unfavorable conditions may be as low as 300 ohms, and possibly as low as 100 ohms from temple to temple if the skin is broken.

 

I believe that GFCI circuits trigger at around 10mA so apparently anything above that is considered dangerous.

Speaking of that, if you could guarantee that anyone working on line power circuits would always use a GFCI, then the danger would be reduced to essentially the same as working at line voltages through a 1:1 isolation transformer.

 

I'm not referring to the technicalities of the concept being if the rules here were as equally strict about all other possible potential ways that anything could lead to someones harm based on scientific plausibility we couldn't discuss anything here.

That's the problem I have with the rules here.
The lack conformity and balance. Either you are all about safety and treat all potential safety issues with equal and unbiased view or you don't and you let personal judgment of the end user decide what is or is nt safe for themselves under your .

the ASS they save maybe their own.

rule. Anywhere in between and you're just come off as a ill informed hypocrite or worse.

It's not my job to save anyone else's ass but my own nor is it anyone else responsibility to save mine nor is it my or anyone else job to decide what may or may not be safe for others either when it comes to forum topics.
'What if' and 'because so and so said so' should be irrelevant to safety concerns.
Same with the supposed liability copout as countless other forums and sites and their members on the internet that deal with extremely dangerous hobbies and work prove every single day.

Wanna learn how to make a very big bomb with little more than common off the shelf materials and chemical supplies?
No problem! There are countless forums open to anyone 24 hours a day that will explain in detail how to do such things and they are 100% liability free for having such info online.

That alone is proof enough that the 'We gotta keep people safe for their own good' and the 'We/the forum ownership may be held liable for their stupidity' excuses that we get told are and have been total BS the whole time.

That's my view. Either safety based on every plausible 'what if' scenarios is held unilaterally on and in every single subject or it's not. So if LED's on mains are potentially lethal then by similar reasoning absolutely no further discussion of electronics circuits can be had here either being someone/everyone 'has the potential' to eat their own soldering wire until they die of lead/flux poisoning as well or at minimal could poke their eye out or burn themselves with their soldering pencil as well.

I mean, sure we could just assume they have enough basic sense to not do that but why risk it being obviously working with mains power and a LED could possibly lead to electrocution in a very remote set of conditions as well.

 

I mean, sure we could just assume they have enough basic sense to not do that but why risk it being obviously working with mains power and a LED could possibly lead to electrocution in a very remote set of conditions as well.

Naturally, ASS U ME is not the position I wish to take. There is enough assumptions in the Homework section dissecting problems and translated English problems. If you don't know the "remote set of conditions" at the other end ... your possibly lead to electrocution could be a probably.

People are going to do what they do. If they want to place their ASS in danger, I choose not to assist them. I may point out the danger, but, if I perceive it will fall on deaf ears, I won't. I won't even know if the person kills them self because of the nature of memberships in forums. There are plenty of people who don't last more than 90 days for any number of reasons.

Some members here belong to professional associations that have Codes of Ethics.

This is one topic that we will continue to disagree. What we both don't know is how it affects the membership numbers. Do people vote with their feet because of it? That's one difficult metric to capture.

 

People are going to do what they do. If they want to place their ASS in danger, I choose not to assist them. I may point out the danger, but, if I perceive it will fall on deaf ears, I won't.

And that's just it! You have the right to refuse to help.

I however feel I am being blocked from helping them learn something new that may be of considerable value to them to know.