Cable/Connectors Assembly

Thread Starter

waulu

Joined Dec 23, 2016
59
Hello,

I have to connect a motor to a controller. For the controller, I have to use a 14 miller connector, so I am gonna buy this one from the manufacturer,

https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/kbl-j2-cable

For the motor, there's a rectangular connector with 6 pins, so I will buy this female connector 6 pins,

https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/csatlakozo-kelly-6pin-vizallo

Between the controller and the motor I only connect 4 pins through the rectangular connector, everything else I connect to a PCB/Perfboard and one wire from the miller connector to a circuit breaker.

So the diagram is like this,

|Controller (14 miller)->6 wires->male rectangular connector->|female rectangular connector->4 wires->motor
| |female rectangular connector->2 wires->PCB/Perfboard
|Controller (14 miller)->9 wires->PCB/Perfboard
|Controller (14 miller)->1 wire->Circuit Breaker

As I don't have much experience with cables/connectors, what connectors should I use to connect the wires to the PCB/Perfboard and to the circuit breaker. Also, I don't understand how I will join the rectangular connector with the cable of the 14 miller connector.

I have attached a drawing to try to clarify my diagram.

Best regards
 

Attachments

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
So the diagram is like this,

|Controller (14 miller)->6 wires->male rectangular connector->|female rectangular connector->4 wires->motor
|female rectangular connector->2 wires->PCB/Perfboard
|Controller (14 miller)->9 wires->PCB/Perfboard
|Controller (14 miller)->1 wire->Circuit Breaker
1) If the connector to the controller has 14 pins/wires, how can it provide 16 wires (6 +9 +1)? (Note: the 6 = 4+2) Do you intend to have "Y-connections" inline?
2) Connections with only 1 wire (e.g., to circuit breaker, CB) are more prone to breaking.

Will the whole thing be in a cabinet or is this open wiring?

I am not clear what your sketch is showing. However, if you can combine the circuit breaker on the perf board, or perhaps, just put the perfboard and CB in the same enclosure, it would simplify things.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
8,446
I suggest that both of the above need a bit more learning about motors and controls and wiring in general before going any farther. I see no chance of success for this project if the information given is all that is available, and the level of insight is equal to what has been shown. So far there is no hint of any information existing as to which wire goes where. Without that information there is no chance of success.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
I suggest that both of the above need a bit more learning about motors and controls and wiring in general before going any farther. I see no chance of success for this project if the information given is all that is available, and the level of insight is equal to what has been shown. So far there is no hint of any information existing as to which wire goes where. Without that information there is no chance of success.
That opinion was clear in your earlier post. Was there any need to repeat it?
 

Thread Starter

waulu

Joined Dec 23, 2016
59
Thank you MisterBill2 and jpanhalt for the replies.

1) If the connector to the controller has 14 pins/wires, how can it provide 16 wires (6 +9 +1)? (Note: the 6 = 4+2) Do you intend to have "Y-connections" inline?
2) Connections with only 1 wire (e.g., to circuit breaker, CB) are more prone to breaking.

Will the whole thing be in a cabinet or is this open wiring?

I am not clear what your sketch is showing. However, if you can combine the circuit breaker on the perf board, or perhaps, just put the perfboard and CB in the same enclosure, it would simplify things.
I am sorry, you are right. I made a mistake with that diagram in text. From the 14 miller connector only 4 wires go to the rectangular connector. The drawing that I attached is correct. It's open wiring, this is something to do at home, just for tests for now.

I was thinking just to make a hole in a box that I have here and place the circuit breaker. It's big the CB so I don't know how I would put it in a perfboard. The perfboard will contain basic components, like resistors and potentiometers to control the acceleration.

Honestly, I thought the explanation was clear, so I apologize for the confusion. I will try again, but only one question at a time.

I have this controller with this interface,

Controller.jpg



and a motor with this connector,

RectangularConnector.png



So, I decided that I need to buy this cable and this female connector,

https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/kbl-j2-cable

https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/csatlakozo-kelly-6pin-vizallo

Now, I need to connect 4 wires from that cable to the female connector. How do I do it? Do I need extra tools? If yes, which ones?

I do this question because I want to have everything prepared and I want to buy everything that I need at once.

Thank you for taking time to read this. I hope it's more clear now. If not please just tell me. I will make the questions related to the perfboard and CB after I have an answer to this one. Just to avoid confusion.

EDIT: The drawing on the first post has a mistake =( I am sorry. I will correct it.
 
Last edited:

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
Now, I need to connect 4 wires from that cable to the female connector. How do I do it? Do I need extra tools? If yes, which ones?
J1, J2, and the bottom connector are male connectors. The matching female connectors will have contacts to which you can attach wires. Sometimes, those contacts have exposed solder lugs. Sometimes they are insulation displacement types (IDC), and you press the wires into narrow slots that cut the insulation and make electrical contact. Another common way are female pins which are attached by crimping to wires and then inserted into the mating connector.

IDC is easily done with special tools, but can also be done with just a bladed screwdriver or dull picks. Crimped connectors are usually done with a crimping tool; although, you can use pliers and solder.

Is that what you are asking?
 

Thread Starter

waulu

Joined Dec 23, 2016
59
Thank you jpanhalt.

First of all I have attached a new drawing to correct the one I uploaded on the first post.

Just to make sure, your explanation is concerned the cable and the connector that I intend to buy?

https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/kbl-j2-cable

https://www.kellycontrollers.eu/csatlakozo-kelly-6pin-vizallo

So, I want to put this wires,

Capture.PNG




into this connector,

Capture1.PNG





Or you are suggesting a new way to do it? I don't know much about wires and connectors and I am not familiarized with the english vocabulary related to this subject. I will study what you just said.

Best regards
 

Attachments

Last edited:

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
Your new drawing is better. My understanding is that the 14-pin connector only has 13 wires:
2 wires to the CB
4 wires to the Molex-type connector ("Molex" from here on)
7 wires to the PCB/Perfboard

Now, as for the 14-pin cable to the Molex. The cable is terminated with what look like tubular female contacts:
1604146637506.png

Those will not mate directly with the blade male contacts in the Molex:

1604146732467.png

While I have seen such tubular connectors in a variety of laborator devices, they may not be the best option for what you are trying to do.
1) Does the mating connector you show in Post #9 have metal contacts installed to mate with the blades? It does not appear that way.
2) Do you have female contacts that fit that connector?
3a) If #2 is "no," then you likely need a new connector pair with mating male and female contacts.
3b) If #2 is "yes," then you need to connect the wires from the 14-pin connector to those female contacts. If those female contacts have terminals that match the barrel contacts from the plug, then you can connect them. That is probably unlikely and is not a very secure connection. Thus, I would probably just cut the barrel contacts off and attach the bare wires to the female contacts.
4) What are you considering for the connectors to the PCB/Perfboard?

Other options:
1) You may find a 6-pin connector that accepts the barrel contacts and has mating male pins.
2) Buy just the 14-pin connector and wire it yourself to mate what it needs to go to.
3) Don't forget about the connections to the CB and PCB.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
8,446
The very first requirement is to know which of the wires from that cable goes to which points on the rectangular connector. That is important to get correct.
In addition the picture of the controller shows five connection posts of larger current handling ability. They are marked B+, B-, A,B, and C. It seems that they must be involved with the incoming power and also connections to the motor. Also, given that there are connections marked B+ and B-, are those the power connections that should connect to the circuit breaker?
What is the PCB supposed to do for the system?

From what I see, the issue of connecting the incompatible connectors is not the first problem, nor is it the biggest problem.

I followed the link for that cable and scrolled down and I see that the controller is intended to be used with a brushless DC motor, and that the motor connections are the posts A,B, and C, and that the motor power supply comes from the B+ and B- connections.
The two multi-pin round connectors are for controls. Others can follow that link and after scrolling down to the controllers download the instruction book, which should include all of the needed information.
 
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Thread Starter

waulu

Joined Dec 23, 2016
59
Thank you jpanhalt e MisterBill2.

Your new drawing is better. My understanding is that the 14-pin connector only has 13 wires:
2 wires to the CB
Well, the connector has 14 wires and the cable too, but I will be only using 12 wires. Only 1 wire to the CB. I am not representing the full diagram here because I am not asking for an evaluation of the whole assembly and the logic behind it. My problem is more related to the physical connections that I don't have much experience. The other pin of the CB that is not represented is already connected to the battery. The battery is not represented because it doesn't represent a problem for me. So I was hoping that by only drawing the part that is a problem for me, it would be easier for anyone to help. But maybe I am wrong.

4) What are you considering for the connectors to the PCB/Perfboard?
In the past I have developed some arduino shields and alike. So, I am only used to this kind of connectors,

1604230329998.png

1604230106051.png

I could perfectly use the male header, this is all low current and voltage. But maybe there are better solutions for this kind of situations. That's my question too, what would you recommend?

Other options:

1) You may find a 6-pin connector that accepts the barrel contacts and has mating male pins.

2) Buy just the 14-pin connector and wire it yourself to mate what it needs to go to.

3) Don't forget about the connections to the CB and PCB.
Thank you, I will keep looking. For the CB I don't know if I can fit the tubular female contact into the circuit breaker. I never used one before, but it's one of the constraints of the project, I cannot change it. I will be using something like this,

1604231382434.png



The very first requirement is to know which of the wires from that cable goes to which points on the rectangular connector. That is important to get correct.
In addition, the picture of the controller shows five connection posts of larger current handling ability. They are marked B+, B-, A,B, and C. It seems that they must be involved with the incoming power and also connections to the motor. Also, given that there are connections marked B+ and B-, are those the power connections that should connect to the circuit breaker?
On the diagram, I am not representing that part of the circuit. That part is already assembled and I cannot change it. Yes, B+ to the circuit breaker but not the one represented in my drawing. B- to the minus battery. A, B and C are the phase of motor and they are not represented on my diagram also. Different cables are used for that. I didn't represent everything to avoid confusion, just to focus on what I need. Maybe it was not smart.

What is the PCB supposed to do for the system?
Potentiometer to control the acceleration, another for the break, switches to activate and deactivate the acceleration and brake functions. Resistor for the thermistor that's inside the motor so the controller can measure the temperature.

I followed the link for that cable and scrolled down and I see that the controller is intended to be used with a brushless DC motor, and that the motor connections are the posts A,B, and C, and that the motor power supply comes from the B+ and B- connections.
The two multi-pin round connectors are for controls. Others can follow that link and after scrolling down to the controllers download the instruction book, which should include all of the needed information.
I don't agree with you. I can follow those instructions and I still don't know how to join a cable to a connector. And I don't see also how the A, B, C, B+ and B- are import for my questions. I am only concerned about the best way to join/connect a connector to that cable with the 14 miller connector, to connect to a molex type connector, a PCB/Perfboard and a CB.

Thank you both. I hope it's more clear what my questions are about. I made some mistakes during the explanations and drawing. I hope now is more clear. I guess I am practising how to explain a problem also =)
 
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jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
I could perfectly use the male header, this is all low current and voltage. But maybe there are better solutions for this kind of situations. That's my question too, what would you recommend?
I use male headers all the time as do many manufacturers. The header itself is durable (I use gold flashed versions). There are several versions, including shrouded and non-shrouded versions. The shrouded ones are usually polarized. The non-shrouded ones may or may not be polarized. One can create polarization by plugging one of the female contacts with a plastic blank. As for the male part, I have found no difference in performance except for the plating.

For the female contacts, I have found major differences in durability and reliability. I consider them to be of three types: 1) A fork type contact; 2) A contact with more points of contact (I include the Mill-Max versions as this type; and 3) A Berg type with some sort of spring /cantilever contact. Branded manufacturers will often include in their datasheets durability measures (e.g., insertion cycles).

I do not use the simple fork types. They have a low cycle life, and I have found them unreliable. I only use the second or third type. If there are going to be multiple insertion cycles, I strongly prefer the third ("Berg") type.

Thank you, I will keep looking. For the CB I don't know if I can fit the tubular female contact into the circuit breaker. I never used one before, but it's one of the constraints of the project, I cannot change it. I will be using something like this,
Are you saying you must use the tubular female connectors? If so, then male headers with square pins may not the the best match. I would use a header with round pins.
 

Thread Starter

waulu

Joined Dec 23, 2016
59
I use male headers all the time as do many manufacturers. The header itself is durable (I use gold flashed versions). There are several versions, including shrouded and non-shrouded versions. The shrouded ones are usually polarized. The non-shrouded ones may or may not be polarized. One can create polarization by plugging one of the female contacts with a plastic blank. As for the male part, I have found no difference in performance except for the plating.

For the female contacts, I have found major differences in durability and reliability. I consider them to be of three types: 1) A fork type contact; 2) A contact with more points of contact (I include the Mill-Max versions as this type; and 3) A Berg type with some sort of spring /cantilever contact. Branded manufacturers will often include in their datasheets durability measures (e.g., insertion cycles).

I do not use the simple fork types. They have a low cycle life, and I have found them unreliable. I only use the second or third type. If there are going to be multiple insertion cycles, I strongly prefer the third ("Berg") type.
Perfect. Thank you.

Are you saying you must use the tubular female connectors? If so, then male headers with square pins may not the the best match. I would use a header with round pins.
I think so because If I buy that cable with 14 miller connector, that cable has the termination "tubular female connector", right? I think you used that name or I misread?
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
The times I have seen that type of contact, both the male and female were free hanging. One or the other may have a slot for springiness. They are easily held together with heat shrink, if needed. That also insulates any exposed metal.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
8,446
Another simple and effective way to connect all of these is with a terminal strip. There are quite a few varieties available, including those suitable for small wire. There are quite a few different kinds available from digikey

The motor connections are confusing because of the wire size. So are those motor connections for the motor drive or for the position pickups, or something else??

That is the part that was confusing because the wire sizes are not at all appropriate for driving a motor of the size handled by that controller.

It does seem quite clear that the TS has no desire to share any other information with us, given the remark about the other connections to the controller.
 

Thread Starter

waulu

Joined Dec 23, 2016
59
Thank you jpanhalt and MisterBill2.

The times I have seen that type of contact, both the male and female were free hanging. One or the other may have a slot for springiness. They are easily held together with heat shrink, if needed. That also insulates any exposed metal.
"Slot for springiness", what does it mean? Is it a way of locking the connectors?

Another simple and effective way to connect all of these is with a terminal strip. There are quite a few varieties available, including those suitable for small wire. There are quite a few different kinds available from digikey

The motor connections are confusing because of the wire size. So are those motor connections for the motor drive or for the position pickups, or something else??
Just to confirm, is this a terminal strip?
1604325602086.png
Yes, that motor connector (Molex type) contains the signals for the hall sensors, the thermistor, the 5V and the Ground.

It does seem quite clear that the TS has no desire to share any other information with us, given the remark about the other connections to the controller.
Yes, everything else is already done and connected, I cannot change it. As you said, the manufacturer presents a clear explanation of the connections that need to be made. My question was just related to the physical connections, how to fit those tubular terminations into the female Molex connector and the best way to connect those tubular connections to the PCB/Perfboard. I appreciate your help, don't think that I don't do. Besides all this, this is not a personal project, I am limited on what I can show. So to avoid to cross any limits here, I am just presenting what I really need.

Best regards
 
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MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
8,446
That green strip shown in post #19 is typical of what I was thinking of. Those come in a variety of forms, including ones just made for connecting wires.
 
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