California is overdeveloped because of the continuous inflow of government money from the state and federal government.

Obama and Hillary Clinton visited the San Francisco area at least 28 times from 2010 to 2016 in order to raise $$$ from special interests of all types and all those special interests got a big return on their investment. However all that federal $$$ flowing into the San Francisco Bay Area economy is creating raging inflation and wreaking havoc on everyone. We've got double digit inflation, traffic congestion, and homeless encampments are sprouting up all over the area.

On the subject of water supply, this year was extremely wet and there's water all over the place. The problem is the state hasn't built enough storage facilities or maintained the existing ones so a lot of the winter rains will just flow back to the ocean without being used by anyone.

Me thinks your just grumpy.
Everybody says that about California, but it's just not true.
They pay more to the Feds than they get back and their State rate is somewhere in the middle.

 

'state hasn't built enough storage facilities or maintained the existing ones so a lot of the winter rains will just flow back to the ocean without being used by anyone.'

Inertia. Plus the state government is overwhelmed.

If you gave a corp of PHD's free rein it would take them awhile just to figure out what

is going on.

Let alone develop a plan to set things right.

A solid case for the RIGHT kind of political reform.

California has become a 'how not to'.

Runaway development with giveaway deals to the develpers.

'Oh. We're so frightened and hysterical they will go some where else!!'

So what! Let them.

Yes the cycle of campaign contributions by huge outfits needs to end.

Old rule was 'any seeming sign of corruption'.

Phffft! That's gone with the wind.

They don't need to build new storage facilities except for the population centers. The farmland is sitting on a huge storage facility.
Tucson has been using it's Colorado river water for years now to recharge the aquifer.

We probably should cover them with solar panels like the Chinese are doing to reduce the evaporation.

 

Got proof?

Sure.
https://www.google.com/search?q=states+that+get+the+most+back+from+federal+govt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416/

 

Sure.

Seems there is a lot more to to the story than what you wish to imply.

https://www.google.com/search?q=why....1.69i57j0.13458j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

http://uscommonsense.org/research/u...-issues-facing-the-golden-state-wall-of-debt/

If you spend more than you make it creates debt.

Simply put having revenue and using to wisely are two very different things. Much like using the internet.

You can claim what you want the but the fact is the whole country full well knows california has huge financial problems due to extremely poor and long running bad management just like many other states.

That's why california is #1 on having the most debt in the country regardless of the cash flow they have.

 

.That's why california is #1 on having the most debt in the country regardless of the cash flow they have.

Oh I think Illinois has taken the lead in that area. The mismanagement here is breathtaking.

 

This is coming from Mr. Context?

If California's debt bothers you the Federal budget must make you crazy.
Debt to GDP is not so bad. Just a couple % higher than ND. As Wayne says theirs is worse.
http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/state_debt_rank

That table understates the depth of douchebaggery going on in Illinois.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Illinois-Ranks-Worst-Run-State-in-the-Country-284774321.html

 

That table understates the depth of douchebaggery going on in Illinois.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Illinois-Ranks-Worst-Run-State-in-the-Country-284774321.html

So what happened? This makes it sound like the rual areas just never recovered?
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/arti...ouse-economy-cant-jump-start-stalled-illinois

 

So what happened?

It's the vicious cycle of corruption. Not necessarily the illegal kind, although we've had plenty of that too, but the ethical kind.
1) Public sector unions found politicians they could control with money and votes. Tale as old as time.
2) These politicians negotiated favorable union contracts as instructed. Effectively, the unions were on both sides of the bargaining table.
3) Knowing full well the scum they were dealing with, the unions got a the state constitution amended to specifically protect their negotiated pension benefits. There's no point in negotiating with someone you can't trust, someone that already has a history of spending far beyond their means. The amendment eliminates the need for trust.
4) Profligate spending continues for decades as private sector pension funding changes dramatically. State cannot adjust to market conditions.
5) State goes far past broke, but cannot seem to find any will to change.
6) Death spiral ensues where the only lever to pull is to raise taxes even as people are streaming out.

Is there a solution? I think it could still be fixed but it would require making the state unpleasant for the takers and driving them out instead of driving out the makers. But there may be more taker votes than maker votes, so I don't know.

And just to note - the only reason I answered this here is because it's not completely off-topic. This is the kind of thing that happens when you give power and dollars to politicians in the name of activist government that the TS seems to advocate. You get graft, corruption and boondoggle projects like pouring water into the desert. Let the people keep and spend their own money the way they see fit. Don't institutionalize theft.

 

It's the vicious cycle of corruption. Not necessarily the illegal kind, although we've had plenty of that too, but the ethical kind.
1) Public sector unions found politicians they could control with money and votes. Tale as old as time.
2) These politicians negotiated favorable union contracts as instructed. Effectively, the unions were on both sides of the bargaining table.
3) Knowing full well the scum they were dealing with, the unions got a the state constitution amended to specifically protect their negotiated pension benefits. There's no point in negotiating with someone you can't trust, someone that already has a history of spending far beyond their means. The amendment eliminates the need for trust.
4) Profligate spending continues for decades as private sector pension funding changes dramatically. State cannot adjust to market conditions.
5) State goes far past broke, but cannot seem to find any will to change.
6) Death spiral ensues where the only lever to pull is to raise taxes even as people are streaming out.

Is there a solution? I think it could still be fixed but it would require making the state unpleasant for the takers and driving them out instead of driving out the makers. But there may be more taker votes than maker votes, so I don't know.

And just to note - the only reason I answered this here is because it's not completely off-topic. This is the kind of thing that happens when you give power and dollars to politicians in the name of activist government that the TS seems to advocate. You get graft, corruption and boondoggle projects like pouring water into the desert. Let the people keep and spend their own money the way they see fit. Don't institutionalize theft.

So it's kind of like the auto industry? They tried to pay with tomorrows dollars (pensions, health care etc.) and the bills came due?

 

If you gave a corp of PHD's free rein it would take them awhile just to figure out what

is going on.

President Eisenhower warned of that :

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
----Fairwell Address, 1961, President Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

And just to note - the only reason I answered this here is because it's not completely off-topic. This is the kind of thing that happens when you give power and dollars to politicians in the name of activist government that the TS seems to advocate. You get graft, corruption and boondoggle projects like pouring water into the desert. Let the people keep and spend their own money the way they see fit. Don't institutionalize theft.

Rather how I see it. If the economy and the needs of the people justify something it's worth pursuing provided of course the rational and real logistics of their wants and goals are justifiable.

Given people do not live in the desert in mass (because the is not enough water) and others do not want to invest the money into bringing the critical resources (like water) there they would need to make life viable there, that's why no one lives there now or wants too. It's not cost effective to do from both the supply and the demand ends.

Also given the huge advancements in farming technology and overall crop production that have taken place in the last 50 years we are feeding more people than ever using less land resources than ever before and thusly have no realistic need to expand into the desert regions to add cropland.

 

So it's kind of like the auto industry? They tried to pay with tomorrows dollars (pensions, health care etc.) and the bills came due?

It's not just the auto industry. It's the majority of the nation and those running it, or who ran it in the past, on money borrowed from the future. The bill is coming due and everyone's going to get stuck with some of it.

It's the nationwide overspending on special interest and just stupid dead end nonsense comes at a price that eventually someone will have to take responsibility and be held accountable for and that is largely going to be us who are alive now. The more rational and conservative side of our culture already knows and sees that and is ready to cut others throats to makes sure they/we don't get stuck with any bigger bill than what is their/our already unfair share.

If people want income and wealth coming into or back to their regions they have to do the work themselves to give said business and industry reasons to want to move in or come back which in such cases as have been mentioned in this thread means they have to clean up their own mess they made or let happen to do it first.

Like bringing water to the desert. Both sides have to work together to make it happen and neither can force a third party to do it plus pay for it for them as so many want to do now. Life does not work that way.

 

So it's kind of like the auto industry? They tried to pay with tomorrows dollars (pensions, health care etc.) and the bills came due?

That's certainly part of it, yes. But Illinois could deal with that if it was the only problem. Unbridled spending is the real problem. We used to have a flat 3% income tax rate for many years (along with some of the highest property taxes in the nation). With the looming debt issues, residents were able to swallow a huge increase to 5% in the hopes that the problem would be addressed, if not fixed, within a few years.

The second the pols got ahold of the new revenue stream, they spent it all, and then some more on top of it, on new spending projects. The same thing happened years earlier when the lottery was begun. All that money supposedly earmarked for education went straight to pet pork projects and who knows where else. Anyway, now our tax rate has been brought back to 3.75% because everyone realized the excursion to 5% had actually made the problem worse.

Just like the violence problem in Chicago, if the residents want to see who is responsible for the problem, they need only look in the mirror.

 

The second the pols got ahold of the new revenue stream, they spent it all, and then some more on top of it, on new spending projects. The same thing happened years earlier when the lottery was begun. All that money supposedly earmarked for education went straight to pet pork projects and who knows where else. Anyway, now our tax rate has been brought back to 3.75% because everyone realized the excursion to 5% had actually made the problem worse.

They did that here to. Actually a voter mandate to fund education and they just ignored it. I'm not sure but I think our schools may be the worst in the nation.
http://www.arizonaea.org/home/520.htm

 

Back at the ranch.

I was in Texas. I walked from a Walmart parking lot to a Well Fargo.

I walked across driveways and lawn strips.

At the edge of the bank parking lot I thought 'What does this remind me of?'

California up through the 60's and into the 70's.

So that is the reality of it.

Space/densely populated or developed more exactly.

Actually 'built upon'. Developed indicates a thought process. A method.

How things are done some places is mindless.

Economic savagery. The equivalent of knocking somebody down and just taking something.

Pretty ugly.

 

I think some of what I am hearing is 'Classic Liberalism'.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Not to be confused with later meaning of liberal.

Belief in the individual and reduced government.

Short answer from me.

Fix the government we have by campaign reform to restore a legitimate vote.

Put it to a vote. Example.

Do we want government works extending public services to the West?

Yes/No.

 

Need reform for one good reason.

We need more representatives in most of the government.

Most people immediately go 'NO!'.

Why do we need more representatives in some areas?

Because of the growth in population.

In California the original districts have an increase in decisions to be made.

Representatives can 't possibly keep up with that avalanche of work.

It is just the reality of it.

Need smaller sub districts witth 'Junior representatives'.

Get rid of the blowing money on re-election campaigns.

It may rival the budgets of what they are governing.

That makes sense how?

 

In California the original districts have an increase in decisions to be made.

Representatives can 't possibly keep up with that avalanche of work.

What a hoot! Bureaucrats spend their days seizing power over more and more aspects of our lives, and make more and more decisions 'for' us, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them when they can't keep up with the workload? A better solution is to restrict the breadth and scope of government. Maybe, just maybe, we don't want all the government we pay for.

 

Time out.