Attaching an E L Wire to a switch, what do I need to do please (basic schematic attached)

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
Measurements on the Ledberg thing would be helpful. A list of all powered items & voltage, current requirements would also be helpful to establish system power requirements.
PWM= pulse width modulation. Say I give a LED a 100 micro second pulse & repeat it every milli second,; the LED will be on but dim. Widen the pulse width in steps & LED will appear to gradually brighten, that is PWM.
Cold you use a small spiral of white rope instead of the Ledberg?
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
8,062
Measurements on the Ledberg thing would be helpful. A list of all powered items & voltage, current requirements would also be helpful to establish system power requirements.
PWM= pulse width modulation. Say I give a LED a 100 micro second pulse & repeat it every milli second,; the LED will be on but dim. Widen the pulse width in steps & LED will appear to gradually brighten, that is PWM.
Cold you use a small spiral of white rope instead of the Ledberg?
The Ledberg is being used as an interior light for the oven. Using a rope spiral makes no sense in this application.

The EL wire or currently the silicone enclosed LED strip is being used to simulate the heating element.

They’re two separate and distinct requirements.
 

Thread Starter

TogetherInElectricDreams

Joined Jan 23, 2019
178
The Ledberg is being used as an interior light for the oven. Using a rope spiral makes no sense in this application.

The EL wire or currently the silicone enclosed LED strip is being used to simulate the heating element.

They’re two separate and distinct requirements.
Hi DJ Fantasi, not quite. If you remember (I know it's been a while) there are four elements to the kitchen: Microwave panel with door interruption, dishwasher panel also with door interruption, working tap and sink plus the oven. I managed to get the microwave and dishwasher done but the plans I saw use the Ledberg to power the panels so I have two arms used and two free. I was going to use one arm to power the tap and pump and the other to power the oven so it was all on one source. Someone else said they think it would be far safer to use a battery in the oven. I am not convinced, I think I could get away with powering the coil and light with the remaining two arms and keeping the tap and pump separate.

I do agree with you that it would make more sense to use an actual LED light for the oven but I actually don't mind using the rope if that makes it all easier to power.
 

Thread Starter

TogetherInElectricDreams

Joined Jan 23, 2019
178
Measurements on the Ledberg thing would be helpful. A list of all powered items & voltage, current requirements would also be helpful to establish system power requirements.
PWM= pulse width modulation. Say I give a LED a 100 micro second pulse & repeat it every milli second,; the LED will be on but dim. Widen the pulse width in steps & LED will appear to gradually brighten, that is PWM.
Cold you use a small spiral of white rope instead of the Ledberg?
Bernard, will the PWM mean I have to any kind of arduino? Or is it pretty easy to achieve? I just can't imagine it. Could I get it so it looks like an oven dial? I assume it has a D shaft I could pop a separate knob onto?

Yes I could use the white rope, the Ledberg was going to be used to power it. Just to explain: The kitchen has four elements, a working microwave panel, a working dishwasher panel, a working tap and sink and a working oven (working in the play sense). The Ledberg will be used to power the microwave panel (let me know if you want to see a video) and the dishwasher panel. I was going to use the other two arms to power the sink and oven but to be honest I'm quite fine with using the other two arms for the under counter lighting.

If you have another suggestion such as using a battery to power the oven then I'll go for that. I would prefer to use the Ledberg but as it's an unknown variable right now I think it's wiser to formulate a plan that we know will work. I don't need the white light to dim or anything which is why I could use a rotary switch intstead of a POT or PWM there. Even dimming the oven heating element is only a nicety and not a necessity. :)
 

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
I'm confused- you have several working modules but are still looking for a power source ?
Have you considered replacing the stove top batteries with modified system power?
How about putting oven heating coil on the bottom where it can be seen & white light on top where it will shine.
Maybe a on-off rotary SW to turn on both light & coil while second knob , pot, controls temperature, coil brightness.
Will be easier to find the parts.
I've thrown in a simple LED dimmer circuit ( PWM still better ) with just 3 parts. R2 is temporary to select a fixed value
R after minimum brightness is selected, maybe around 10k. A D1326 was used for test but hard to find, so can substitute
other Darlington, med power, transistors like TIP101, TIP120. I like the D1326 because it has an insulated case, high input resistance & I have some.Scan.jpg
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
8,062
I'm confused- you have several working modules but are still looking for a power source ?
Have you considered replacing the stove top batteries with modified system power?
How about putting oven heating coil on the bottom where it can be seen & white light on top where it will shine.
Maybe a on-off rotary SW to turn on both light & coil while second knob , pot, controls temperature, coil brightness.
Will be easier to find the parts.
I've thrown in a simple LED dimmer circuit ( PWM still better ) with just 3 parts. R2 is temporary to select a fixed value
R after minimum brightness is selected, maybe around 10k. A D1326 was used for test but hard to find, so can substitute
other Darlington, med power, transistors like TIP101, TIP120. I like the D1326 because it has an insulated case, high input resistance & I have some.View attachment 211044
The TS has difficulty understanding how one source can power multiple devices. Especially if they require different voltages.
 

Thread Starter

TogetherInElectricDreams

Joined Jan 23, 2019
178
The TS has difficulty understanding how one source can power multiple devices. Especially if they require different voltages.
That's true to an extent, in this case the reason I am suggesting a separate source is because the Ledberg is an unknown variable but a battery source isn't. I do recall you explaining to me that one source could provide the necessary voltages but one would have to "power up" if the voltage wasn't enough or "power down" if it were too much. At that time I didn't even know where to start but through research I was able to find this Ledberg, another guy used it successfully in his kid's kitchen, slightly simpler execution but it worked nonetheless.
 

Thread Starter

TogetherInElectricDreams

Joined Jan 23, 2019
178
I'm confused- you have several working modules but are still looking for a power source ?
Have you considered replacing the stove top batteries with modified system power?
How about putting oven heating coil on the bottom where it can be seen & white light on top where it will shine.
Maybe a on-off rotary SW to turn on both light & coil while second knob , pot, controls temperature, coil brightness.
Will be easier to find the parts.
I've thrown in a simple LED dimmer circuit ( PWM still better ) with just 3 parts. R2 is temporary to select a fixed value
R after minimum brightness is selected, maybe around 10k. A D1326 was used for test but hard to find, so can substitute
other Darlington, med power, transistors like TIP101, TIP120. I like the D1326 because it has an insulated case, high input resistance & I have some.View attachment 211044
Bernard thank you so much for this. I will take your advice about the coil and put it on the bottom.
No, I am not looking for a power source, I was just concerned that as the Ledberg is a variable it might be too confusing to use it, also someone else suggested using a battery for safety but neither you nor DJ Fantasi seem to list this as a concern so no worries there.

I can just about make out what I need to do from the schematic (I am learning as I go lol!). What rotary switch and pot do I need? Do I need both TP transistors or just one?

When you ask me about the stove top batteries, is this because you are aware this is an Ikea Duktig kitchen? If so please could you tell me more about this? Yes I did look at whether I could do that actually as many parents have complained that the stove drinks out batteries at a ridiculous rate.

As usual, I appreciate your time and explanations.
 

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
Just 1 Darlington transistor = to TIP120 . A 2" X 2" copper or aluminum heat sink should be OK.
Not knowing any better ,will assume power is from a 12V, 5A Wall- Wart & a buck converter will reduce the 12V to 5V where needed. To attach leads to a battery box might make adapters from 1/2 " wood dowel 1.9" long. with a small screw on one end holding a red wire for +, other adapter , strip black wire and stretch over end & tape . Attach wires to 5V source, red to +, black to _ .
Seems that red neon-like strip will not be available from Mouser until 8-28-2020. Strip " can be cut" but instructions for attaching leads to cut end not found.
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
8,062
Just 1 Darlington transistor = to TIP120 . A 2" X 2" copper or aluminum heat sink should be OK.
Not knowing any better ,will assume power is from a 12V, 5A Wall- Wart & a buck converter will reduce the 12V to 5V where needed. To attach leads to a battery box might make adapters from 1/2 " wood dowel 1.9" long. with a small screw on one end holding a red wire for +, other adapter , strip black wire and stretch over end & tape . Attach wires to 5V source, red to +, black to _ .
Seems that red neon-like strip will not be available from Mouser until 8-28-2020. Strip " can be cut" but instructions for attaching leads to cut end not found.
He has a special neon strip in mind. It’s rated at 12VDC. He has a 24VDC source.
 

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
Instead of OP, TS, you, He, She, could we use Lili for a temporary name?
Lili, I've spent last hour trying to match a SW to pot @ Mouser-UK. Pot might be: 313-2441F-5k, 6mm D shaft @ 1.95Ebut
no matching SW. Found one but picture did not match the fine print. From my surplus catalog," All Electronics", I found every thing in 5 min. I Just called All Electronics & they will ship to Germany . Can you bring them up on the net?
 
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Thread Starter

TogetherInElectricDreams

Joined Jan 23, 2019
178
He has a special neon strip in mind. It’s rated at 12VDC. He has a 24VDC source.
Instead of OP, TS, you, He, She could we use Lili for a temporary name?
Lili, I've spent last hour trying to match a SW to pot @ Mouser-UK. Pot might be: 313-2441F-5k, 6mm D shaft @ 1.95Ebut
no matching SW. Found one but picture did not match the fine print. From my surplus catalog," All Electronics", I found every thing in 5 min. I Just called All Electronics & they will ship to Germany . Can you bring them up on the net?
Lilli is actually perfect. :) Thank you.

Okay, in terms of the site did you mean: https://www.allelectronics.com/

DJ Fantasi is right, if I am going for a power source it'll be from the Ledberg which plugs into the wall, if I am not going to use that then I'd rather use a battery pack, I don't want too many leads coming off the thing.

Is the SW a problem because of the dimming because seriously I can abandon that idea if it proves fiddly. It's just a nicety.
 

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
It still might be much cheaper to buy local than from US. I would not buy parts until power source is settled.
Lili, do you already have knobs & if so what shaft size ?
I believe a SMPS, switch mode power supply, is just as safe as the Ledberg thing or batteries & specs would be known.
As for PWM, just a bit more complicated.
 

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
The circuit in post #25 will work but with 12 V input, light will not be at full brightness. Using PWM a FET, field effect transistor, can be used as the driver with less than 1/10 V loss against 2V on #25.
I think I have found a rotary SW at Mouser-UK ; double pole, double throw, DPDT, Mouser no: 611- H20207RR01Q., with 3/8-32 bushing, 1/4" D shaft, 1/2" long, L 4.80.
 

Thread Starter

TogetherInElectricDreams

Joined Jan 23, 2019
178
The circuit in post #25 will work but with 12 V input, light will not be at full brightness. Using PWM a FET, field effect transistor, can be used as the driver with less than 1/10 V loss against 2V on #25.
I think I have found a rotary SW at Mouser-UK ; double pole, double throw, DPDT, Mouser no: 611- H20207RR01Q., with 3/8-32 bushing, 1/4" D shaft, 1/2" long, L 4.80.
Bernard, Like I said I am happy to ditch the Ledberg as a power source, due to my limited understanding what I'd like to do is buy the components that you suggest and then literally it's a "dot to dot" join this to that and that to this. Building it is not an issue for me, I can solder and put parts together, I have the kit to do all of that what I cannot do is understand all the whys and wherefores so for example I can wire up a plug no problem but I cannot explain to you WHY those wires must go there and what they actually do.

So to move forward do you mind if I ask you to make the decision for me in terms of power supply? Once that is sorted then we can make a list of items and I will get purchasing. I would prefer a battery option solely because of leads BUT I'll go with anything you suggest. I will check Mouser UK.

Knobs: I've seen these https://www.amazon.co.uk/RDEXP-Elec...d=1&keywords=Oven+knob&qid=1593673689&sr=8-67
I think they'll do the job just nicely! :) They also come with a range of shaft sizes so I am sure one will fit the D shaft.

Also Bernard, you mentioned something about changing the stove top from battery to a mains source but didn't eleborate, were you talking about the Duktig stove top or was is a misnomer and you meant the oven?
 

Bernard

Joined Aug 7, 2008
5,788
I believe the Duktig stove top operates on 4 AA, alk. batteries which could be operated from a 6V power supply or if 12V is
available then a buck converter adjusted to 6V . Would need to know more about how the burners are switched and dimmed.
Lili, where are you getting the " neon rope" from, as they might also carry the Adafruit SMPS, 12V, 5A with euro plug.
Best that I can do on parts:
Switch. Rota-Slide, DPDT, 1/4" x 1/2" shaft, Mouser # 611-H20207RR01Q, L 4.80
Pot. Alpha, RV24AF-10-15F-B5k-LA; 6mm D shaft. Mouser# 313-2441F-5k; L 1.72
Pot. Mouser # 313-2441F-50k; L1.7
Transistor. TIP 120, Darlington 5A, 60V, TO220; Mouser # 511-TIP120, L0.507
Wire 22AWG, stranded, red. Mouser# 474-PRT-08865. Black # 474-PRT-08867. Each L 2.34
Length, spool ??
 
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