# Anyone invested in bit coins?

#### spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,835
Anyone invested in bit coins? The value has been going insane recently.

I have always though that this was nothing but a scam but now sort of wish I invested a few years ago.

I am surprised it had lasted this long and the major nations of the world have not shut it down. I understand the banks are getting into the deal now. How can this go on unregulated? Seems a perfect tool to launder money.

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,595
Looks like a bigger fool speculation curve but maybe it's the next big thing. I mined some long ago before the Chinese took over Bitcoin using hardware with dedicated ASIC miners and 'free' electricity. People are using it to smuggle money out of countries with failing currencies like Venezuela or some parts of Asia with restrictive monetary policies or fear of war like SK.

Each boom was followed by a dramatic crash, one of the riskiest investments for sure.

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#### justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
429
not invested, but I bought $50 worth of it 2 years ago, now it is worth$150. I forgot about it, had to scramble to find password for my wallet. I should convert it to something real (i.e. buy something online) before regulations crash it again

Also, I did not think of it as a scam, each deal is tracable from the users end. I think it is a good way to get away from out fake monetary system so it will never go through which is why it is underground... our overlords loose.

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,595
http://fiatleak.com/

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-04/bitcoin-is-an-escapist-safe-haven
Despite its rising price and profile, bitcoin is still something of a toy currency. It has rarely logged more than 300,000 daily transactions, significantly fewer than Croatia's national clearing system registers in that country's currency, the kuna. The number of merchants accepting bitcoin is growing, but it's still extremely challenging to use it as a principle currency, wherever you live. For practical purposes, it's mostly useful to people seeking to bypass their country's currency restrictions, as some Chinese and, for example, Venezuelans do. According to Coin Dance, last year the average weekly bitcoin trading volume quadrupled in Venezuela. Bitcoin trading volumes in Chinese yuan -- the currency responsible for 97 percent of all bitcoin trading -- are double what they were a year ago, according to CryptoCompare.

#### strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,333
Always seemed kinda scammy to me. I haven't really given it an honest investigation in years. Is it more legit now?

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,595
Always seemed kinda scammy to me. I haven't really given it an honest investigation in years. Is it more legit now?
It's as legit as the Chinese investors and regulators backing Bitcoin.

#### crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
25,446
Certainly is a perfect vehicle to launder money or for the ransomware payments.
If it weren't for bitcoin the ransomware hackers would have a much more difficult time hiding the payments made to them.

#### spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,835
There has to be something wrong with this picture. The all time low was .06. The high is $2,260. Had you bought just$100 worth back in the day, you would now have $3.7M! I can't believe it works like that. #### takao21203 Joined Apr 28, 2012 3,695 AS long as people keep hoarding it and get amazed about the wealth piling up value will increase evermore. Probably you couldnt even exchange it for cash in real world if it would be a large value. Some sunglass agent would come and tell you not to do stupid things and keep playing the game. From nothing comes nothing. If the value goes up from 50 to 150 and everybody withdraws their gain it will crash. If only a few withdraw theyll win. The others, no. Look at it more like a pyramid scheme. Its like you dont have a VISA or Master card and have never used an ATM or paid something contactless? Or you dont work and hope to cash in on some hype, either your own or a pot of gold incl. some Paddy Dwarf Leprechaun guarding it. Looks more like a historic version of a troll to me. Play lotto too, its a way of communications, the only ones doing the big holidays and enjoying the lifestyle are the ones running the scheme and theyre promoting their way of life and say, hey, just by looking at this you can get rich too, but tomorrow the price will go up and places are limited so book now before its too late. Seen all too often. Gypsy Tarmac, incredible bargain but before completion the gypsy will turn up several times and will need additional payments and your pavewalk eventually will never become completed. Astro Turf. #### paulktreg Joined Jun 2, 2008 786 It is now a legitimate form of payment at some on line retailers, Scan for example, so there must be something in it? #### nsaspook Joined Aug 27, 2009 7,595 It is now a legitimate form of payment at some on line retailers, Scan for example, so there must be something in it? They take it (it's usually a vary small percentage of total cash flow) and exchange it for the local currency asap. It's much too volatile to use as the main monetary component of a major retail business and I'd rather not have every transaction I make in a public database for the world to see. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/052014/why-bitcoins-value-so-volatile.asp #### takao21203 Joined Apr 28, 2012 3,695 They take it (it's usually a vary small percentage of total cash flow) and exchange it for the local currency asap. It's much too volatile to use as the main monetary component of a major retail business and I'd rather not have every transaction I make in a public database for the world to see. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/052014/why-bitcoins-value-so-volatile.asp OK lets say big recognized financial institutions will go for it- then youll need passport + proof of address + couldnt hide from taxation. Then whats the advantage, if any? Most relieable standards are the USD (for trading internationally) and GBP / Euro. Millions of people use these for a long time in their daily life so no matter what youll get some value out of it. Personally I made gains by relying on the USD. When I started trading the USD was 1.30 kindof and now its near parity. As my spending was in Euro simply I got out more value. But take it with a grain of salt- cost of living at my place was extremly high. Now its GBP the rate of exchange is different but culturally UK is different, welfare is much much lower, so obviously theres bargains and low cost ways of living. Not all the world is geared for high expense and vistor-style kinds of spending like the place I used to live. What a currency amount is really worth has a high cultural dependance, not just numerical. Each culture has their own bargains an other may not have. I think the welfare rate here is only about GBP 60 pw. or so (Im not on it). Ive also heard many jobs outside the big cities have a low pay comperatively. But you may receive other value besides money such as the place and people may be great. Whats the use if you have hundreds of thousands but your outgoings are higher than the income and a sandwich costs$7? A meal in a restaurant $40? Its foolish and childish just to look at numerical values without asking where does the money come from why is it paid, in what environment is it spent. And mind it, its not empty speech I think, we have seen financial crashes, caused mostly by corrupt valuation of properties, moving of titles of posession just for the purpose of making gains and not caring if even mothers with young children have to sleep in a park or go to a creepy shelter. Thousands affected. If you look just at numerical values but dont care the cultural environment, it can have devastating consequences for people involved, and may involve very large costs in the long run. Money notes are just pieces of paper. They are an exchange for goods and services which are not avail unlimited, which need considerable efforts, which are scarce. They are not just representing suitcases owned by rappers promoting themselves and some slogans and if you win the lottery, many of these after some time ended up worse than before and unhappy. #### takao21203 Joined Apr 28, 2012 3,695 A lot of bla bla bla. Long story short, when historically monetary systems failed, and they did, someone had to let their pants down. The one way or the other. So, bitcoin will prevent anyone to blow up a train in Chicago when you could transfer funds to a complete stranger? Like buying drugs on the street? Most people are basically good but the father of Tom Cruise was abusive and antisocial Ive learned about that today. Combined with kindof a dyslexia he had to be tough just to survive, he was lucky it was recognized early and now hes cured! Sucess. Interestingly, Ive found as a matter of fact theres a company with the name Ecowood in realworld. Im using/abusing it for some of my products they are in no way woods or eco related at all but guess people google that and its advertising. the relative ease in which it can be acquired and used, especially considering all one needs is an Internet connection Highly nonsensical. You need a home as you wouldnt get a contract without proof of address. You need a bank account. Pay as you go is quite costly. Devices arent cheap and they fail often. Your access could be intercepted or suspended. Did you ever experience roaming and "free wifi" (not working)? So maybe your internet access is good but you wouldnt be able to move away. Oh yes everyone is basically good theres no need to move away its only happening in bad Hollywood movies or in fake news. Your abused man, wake up from your dream world. When you dont have a phone for whatever reason (right now) you tell someone on the street or in a shop that youd be a bitcoin prince and you should be given a phone and youll pay later with bitcoin? One of these grandfather stories, I have a rich grandfather hiding in a waterwell for some years from immigration. #### wayneh Joined Sep 9, 2010 16,399 I mined some long ago before the Chinese took over Bitcoin using hardware with dedicated ASIC miners and 'free' electricity. I have variable rate pricing for electricity and occasionally see negative electric rates as high as -15¢/kWh. Yup, negative. So a friend suggested getting into mining bitcoins, which as I understand it is selling processor cycles. Most people can't afford to dedicate equipment and pay for electricity for the tiny rate of return. Even with the utility company paying mw to take the electricity, I'd have to have a fairly sizable investment in time, trouble and equipment, and basement space, to have any hope of making a useful return. Just not worth it. #### nsaspook Joined Aug 27, 2009 7,595 Just not worth it today is right. https://bitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ Energy producers can freely burn coal and use the energy for Bitcoin mining. Instead of physically transporting the coal, it’s easier and more cost-effective to establish a Bitcoin mining operation near a source of coal and convert carbon directly to crypto. Bitcoin is produced mainly with coal powered electricity making it dirty money. It is an infinite sink for computing power that generates pollution. http://gizmodo.com/the-worlds-most-powerful-computer-network-is-being-was-504503726 https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/05/cryptocurrency-ponzi-schemes/528624/ #### tcmtech Joined Nov 4, 2013 2,867 There has to be something wrong with this picture. The all time low was .06. The high is$2,260. Had you bought just $100 worth back in the day, you would now have$3.7M! I can't believe it works like that.
You have no idea how I feel about that timeline now for those exact reasons.

#### justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
429
A lot of bla bla bla.

Long story short, when historically monetary systems failed, and they did, someone had to let their pants down. The one way or the other.

So, bitcoin will prevent anyone to blow up a train in Chicago when you could transfer funds to a complete stranger? Like buying drugs on the street?

Most people are basically good but the father of Tom Cruise was abusive and antisocial Ive learned about that today. Combined with kindof a dyslexia he had to be tough just to survive, he was lucky it was recognized early and now hes cured! Sucess.

Interestingly, Ive found as a matter of fact theres a company with the name Ecowood in realworld. Im using/abusing it for some of my products they are in no way woods or eco related at all but guess people google that and its advertising.

the relative ease in which it can be acquired and used, especially considering all one needs is an Internet connection

Highly nonsensical. You need a home as you wouldnt get a contract without proof of address. You need a bank account. Pay as you go is quite costly. Devices arent cheap and they fail often. Your access could be intercepted or suspended.

Did you ever experience roaming and "free wifi" (not working)?

So maybe your internet access is good but you wouldnt be able to move away. Oh yes everyone is basically good theres no need to move away its only happening in bad Hollywood movies or in fake news. Your abused man, wake up from your dream world.

When you dont have a phone for whatever reason (right now) you tell someone on the street or in a shop that youd be a bitcoin prince and you should be given a phone and youll pay later with bitcoin? One of these grandfather stories, I have a rich grandfather hiding in a waterwell for some years from immigration.
the idea is that it is universal cash, and in many ways it is - criminals use it. Poor people can use ot. Once you lose it, you cannot recover it. Most poor countries have cell phones now and a better cell coverage than i have where i live...

Now, the market price of bitcoin - it is supposed to go against market, no? The very concept of it. At least how I saw it when it first came out.

#### takao21203

Joined Apr 28, 2012
3,695
the idea is that it is universal cash, and in many ways it is - criminals use it. Poor people can use ot. Once you lose it, you cannot recover it. Most poor countries have cell phones now and a better cell coverage than i have where i live...

Now, the market price of bitcoin - it is supposed to go against market, no? The very concept of it. At least how I saw it when it first came out.
Seriously I have a rich grandfather hiding in a water well for a couple of years bcz immigration is after him, now, would you mind pls to give a cash advance on this it's urgent I need to rescue him?