Now, we all know that analogue is way better than Digital, and we all know how Spice lies to you. It tries to lie to us here at TI every day and every week and every month, but we won't let it.

Do you think analogue is better as well ?

In the analogue world you see the big picture. Digital lies to you all the time.

Please share your comments with us.

 

Digital is a subset of analog.

Spice doesn't lie. It just has limitations like any other tool. It's user responsibility to know when results are credible.

 

Digital is a subset of analog.

Spice doesn't lie. It just has limitations like any other tool. It's user responsibility to know when results are credible.

Do you disagree with Bob Pease then ? Is that what you're trying to say ?

Bob Pease said quite firmly that Spice lies. Are you saying you disagree with Bob Pease then ?

 

Bob had a well known bias against Spice simulators. I too trust the simulator between my ears more than I trust Spice.

 

I would say this....I was brought up in the analogue era and 99% of everything I was involved during my working career in electronics was analogue.
Whilst I totally agree that without digital, many of the devices and systems that are in everyday use now ,simply would not be possible.
However, what I am concerned about is that younger engineers are not learning the very necessary analogue basic building blocks and seem to lack a clear understanding of analogue electronics. Almost "We will do it digitally, no matter how long it takes, how many times we have to de-bug it, and we will use a computer program to simulate it" then when it's build it with real world components, have no clue as to why it doesn't work.
I make this comment based on experience with a neighbour who is a software engineer and was having a problem with a lap recorder he was building. ( he works for a very large company and has years of software experience) for three months he had been trying to solve a problem with glitches when the equipment was used in the field (literally)
I had a look at the recordings of the glitches and immediately knew what was happening. Two hours later I had made a simple analogue circuit on stripboard, sealed it in a metal case, provided a piece of copper rod to stick in the ground, and VOILA! problem solved.
He and his fellow software engineers had believed manufactures component specs to the letter, and had not thought of how other outside influences were affecting REAL WORLD components.
I'm not suggesting that they were incompetent in anyway, just did not have the combined analogue experience to not become single minded on de-bugging the software which was not at fault.

 

In my small corner of the electronics world, it certainly feels like the real art in electronics is in the unpredictable, real-world stuff simulators won't tell you about. A simulator won't tell you that you need decoupling caps on digital ICs. It won't tell you anything about grounding issues. It won't tell you anything about unexpected EMI.

It seems like you can use a simulator to verify a lot of conceptual, big picture design stuff, but if you don't understand analog fundamentals, good design practices, logical building blocks, etc. you'll be in trouble very quickly.

If I feed an ADC a raw signal after a long cable run from a sensor, I might get screwy data. Any competent engineer (and many ADC datasheets and app notes) can design an input conditioning stage between the wires and the ADC to clean it up, but the simulator won't predict those issues.

I have almost no analog chops, but I've had a surprising degree of success just using proven building blocks from datasheets, app notes, and users here on this forum.

Obviously digital doesn't work without analog fundamentals. I don't think that's a failing or shortcoming, it's just reality. I suppose "digital thinking" which ignores analog concepts could be seriously flawed, but that doesn't mean digital is bad, only that tunnel vision is bad.

Sorry, kinda rambled there...

 

It tries to lie to us here at TI every day and every week and every month, but we won't let it.

"Us here at TI"?

Which TI are you referring to and which flavor of SPICE are you using?

 

Do you disagree with Bob Pease then ?

Yes.
He was a great analog designer but he had a bias against Spice.
He also though his old VW beetle was the cat's meow.

Spice is only as good as the models it works with.
If all you "Us's" at TI build accurate models for your devices, then Spice will give you accurate results.

It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

 

Spice is only as good as the models it works with.
If all you "Us's" at TI build accurate models for your devices, then Spice will give you accurate results.
It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

"TI" might also be the local "Technology Institute" or the Toilet Inspectors club.

 

Yes.
He was a great analog designer but he had a bias against Spice.
He also though his old VW beetle was the cat's meow.

Spice is only as good as the models it works with.
If all you "Us's" at TI build accurate models for your devices, then Spice will give you accurate results.

It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

Are you calling us poor craftsmen ?

 

Are you calling us poor craftsmen ?

Who´s us, exactly? Or was that majestic plural?

 

Are you calling us poor craftsmen ?

I'm saying "if the shoe fits, wear it".

I've used Spice for many years in doing my analog designs and it's seldom giving me erroneous results that couldn't be attributed to bad models or an error in my design (of which it has found many).

What "TI" are you referring to as here in the US we have analog engineers, not analogue engineers?

 

All digital devices are made of analog components. Main analog component's are resistor, capacitor, inductor diode transistor..etc if you see, Gate IC, Memory IC Microcontroller IC ..etc. You will find resistor, capacitor, inductor diode transistor..etc in all digital devices. These all digital device are made of analog component's.

 

Do you disagree with Bob Pease then ? Is that what you're trying to say ?

Bob Pease said quite firmly that Spice lies. Are you saying you disagree with Bob Pease then ?

Every time I met him, and almost every time I read his stuff.

ak

 

Are you calling us poor craftsmen ?

Is that what you want to be called? A craftsman?

 

Digital already won this battle years ago. Seen any analog Internets lately? The duty cycle gave us low power consumption and miniaturization.

And AM and FM is the only analog left. What analog circuits are left......are controlled with digital circuits.

It will be mind blowing when we get light frequencies and higher, switches.

In analog circuits......current and the reactance to it......is king. With digital.....it just the yea or nay.....at a certain time. A simple on/off pattern with time.

A digital circuit can also look down deep into noise. This is real magic. Much of the noise(if not all) has a pattern to it. These patterns can be detected, measured....and masked. Even changing noise patterns can be detected.

Digital is where it's at....for a young fella.

 

Or "Trolling Initiative".

 

Every time I met him, and almost every time I read his stuff.

ak

Are you saying you have actually met Bob Pease in person ? Is that right? How did you meet Bob Pease?

 

Digital already won this battle years ago. Seen any analog Internets lately? The duty cycle gave us low power consumption and miniaturization.

And AM and FM is the only analog left. What analog circuits are left......are controlled with digital circuits.

It will be mind blowing when we get light frequencies and higher, switches.

In analog circuits......current and the reactance to it......is king. With digital.....it just the yea or nay.....at a certain time. A simple on/off pattern with time.

A digital circuit can also look down deep into noise. This is real magic. Much of the noise(if not all) has a pattern to it. These patterns can be detected, measured....and masked. Even changing noise patterns can be detected.

Digital is where it's at....for a young fella.

I think you are wrong..... Sorry. But digital is Analog......... Digital people are like programmers, and analog people are the real engineers.

Programmers just use computers but do not know how they work........ Analog engineers are the people who build the computers and circuits.

Digital engineers use tools like verilog, so they have become programmers, writes of code. They have forgotten electronics.

So we still need analog engineers, more than ever actually because they build the real hardware.

I think any disagreements are futile.

 

With a statement like this...

So we still need analog engineers, more than ever actually because they build the real hardware.

I think any disagreements are futile.

I think your post is absolutely correct...

Or "Trolling Initiative".

Why was this thread started if the OP already has an answer?