Advice for neophytes... which you will almost certainly never see...

Thread Starter

Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
3,523
If you tried to solve a problem and failed, and you need help to solve your problem, don't present your failed solution. First present the problem you are trying to solve, then, if in your naïve enthusiasm you believe your failed solution just needs some secret sauce, present that—second.

Let us try to help you solve your problem which is not the same thing as the new problem of your failed solution.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
434
If you tried to solve a problem and failed, and you need help to solve your problem, don't present your failed solution. First present the problem you are trying to solve, then, if in your naïve enthusiasm you believe your failed solution just needs some secret sauce, present that—second.

Let us try to help you solve your problem which is not the same thing as the new problem of your failed solution.
Hmmm... Presenting a problem with no attempted solution is immediately followed by a question - "show us what you have attempted so far?" Or something along those lines

That is unless someone post the following - "we are not here to do your homework for you".

As a long time math tutor, i always want to see what the failed solution was. It helps to determine gaps in knowledge and if they are even trying.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
24,238
Hmmm... Presenting a problem with no attempted solution is immediately followed by a question - "show us what you have attempted so far?" Or something along those lines

That is unless someone post the following - "we are not here to do your homework for you".

As a long time math tutor, i always want to see what the failed solution was. It helps to determine gaps in knowledge and if they are even trying.
That usually applies to threads in Homework Help.

What this thread addresses is someone working on a project and cannot get a segment of the project to work. The creator is fixated on solving this problem and feels that having to reveal the nature of the entire project is unnecessary or reveals too much intellectual property. Further investigation reveals that the conceived solution is inappropriate and would not have existed had a proper solution been adopted in the first place.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
434
That usually applies to threads in Homework Help.

What this thread addresses is someone working on a project and cannot get a segment of the project to work. The creator is fixated on solving this problem and feels that having to reveal the nature of the entire project is unnecessary or reveals too much intellectual property. Further investigation reveals that the conceived solution is inappropriate and would not have existed had a proper solution been adopted in the first place.
That usually applies to threads in Homework Help.

What this thread addresses is someone working on a project and cannot get a segment of the project to work. The creator is fixated on solving this problem and feels that having to reveal the nature of the entire project is unnecessary or reveals too much intellectual property. Further investigation reveals that the conceived solution is inappropriate and would not have existed had a proper solution been adopted in the first place.
I understand what you mean. But question is, why was that solution attempted in the first place. I have a project at work right now that I am forced to deal with where no an inappropriate solution is being implemented. Why? No budget. No budget = no choice
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
24,238
I understand what you mean. But question is, why was that solution attempted in the first place. I have a project at work right now that I am forced to deal with where no an inappropriate solution is being implemented. Why? No budget. No budget = no choice
That's an example of false economics. Too often taking no action costs more than acting in the first place. Being proactive is often times less costly than being reactive.

A case in point is taking action on mitigating climate change.
Another example: having a healthy, resilient social fabric in place is less costly that having to deal with the consequences of a pandemic.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
434
That's an example of false economics. Too often taking no action costs more than acting in the first place. Being proactive is often times less costly than being reactive.

A case in point is taking action on mitigating climate change.
Another example: having a healthy, resilient social fabric in place is less costly that having to deal with the consequences of a pandemic.
Yes. Unfortunately our public services overlords do not seem to know that. For example the "project" I am talking about is proving a concept that has already been proven and implemented many times over. Since I work in healthcare, this is a perfect illustration of how it "functions"
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
1,110
If you tried to solve a problem and failed, and you need help to solve your problem, don't present your failed solution. First present the problem you are trying to solve, then, if in your naïve enthusiasm you believe your failed solution just needs some secret sauce, present that—second.

Let us try to help you solve your problem which is not the same thing as the new problem of your failed solution.
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Amen-Brother .............
Probably ~80% of the questions that I choose to look at have this exact syndrome.
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The Thread-Starter has an epiphany, and thinks he has just re-invented the Wheel.
This demonstrates to me that they have not evaluated the thousands of previous
efforts towards solving the exact same problem,
and how that problem is currently solved commercially, on average,
and the normally numerous, practical DIY methods, for achieving that same end result.
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Simple, Cheap, Bullet-Proof, "Bottom-Line"-type solutions,
have been my pursuit for ~55 years, ( in many different fields).
I believe that it would be advantageous for you to do the same.
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Your design will probably start-out overly complex.
As you gain a better understanding of what-causes-what,
you will start to see ways to simplify your design.

Start-out with individual "Building-Blocks" and
learn to make them "play-nice" with each other.
Then see if you can incorporate several "Building-Blocks"
into one larger, simplified, Block.
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Keep in mind that Power-Supply-Design is vital to the success of your project,
and can sometimes be more complex, and expensive,
than the Circuit that it provides Power for.
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You don't need a Micro-Controller for 95% of DIY stuff.
Although, if your actual pursuit is learning to Program, more-power-to-ya.
You need to learn basic Analogue / Linear Circuits FIRST,
to be successful with Computer-Digital-Control.
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If you want to eventually be hired as an Electronics Engineer,
by all means, knock yourself out with learning all the pit-falls of microscopic SMD Design.
But if you are just a DIY Hobbyist, wanting to make some cool stuff,
stick with Through-Hole, Bread-Board, Perf-Board, and "Dead-Bug", Construction-Techniques.

SMD Construction is geared towards CHEAP Automated-Mass-Production,
If you think that you have come up with a working, "World-Beater" Circuit-Design ...........
AFTER you work out all the Bugs,
THEN convert it to SMD,
THEN you can start with the job of working out the SMD Bugs.
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( enough with the Rant )
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I believe in Heavy Fact/Reality Bombing,
but I'm usually too nice anyway,
and understand that the only real barriers are .......
mis-understood words / concepts,
too many acronyms,
and not having paid attention in Math Class.
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GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
1,879
If you tried to solve a problem and failed, and you need help to solve your problem, don't present your failed solution. First present the problem you are trying to solve, then, if in your naïve enthusiasm you believe your failed solution just needs some secret sauce, present that—second.

Let us try to help you solve your problem which is not the same thing as the new problem of your failed solution.
As much as I agree, you are likely talking to those who aren’t here, yet.
It’s incumbent on those that engage, to seek ‘root cause’, unless of course you just want to tell your story.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
434
"You do not need a microcontroller" - unfortunatelly internet tells you that you do. Even for a blinking LED... Sad but true. The push is that "everyone can be a programmer" and many seem to believe it
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
3,692
Once you know micros and programming though, you will never go back to using 4 chips to make a circuit that cannot be changed without rewiring instead of one chip and being able to change the functionality on the fly with no new hardware.

Bob
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
8,688
"You do not need a microcontroller" - unfortunatelly internet tells you that you do. Even for a blinking LED... Sad but true. The push is that "everyone can be a programmer" and many seem to believe it
"Everyone can be a programmer" is much the same as saying everyone can add 2+2 and write the result on a worksheet(spreadsheets). Programming is very simple for the most part. Read spec, implement accordingly.
Code primate stuff.

Much more important here is electronic/electrical analog and digital circuit (skills that must be known separately from computer programming) problem solving using direct effect (embedded) programming skills as a way to translate sets of physical electrical characteristics and transfer functions into the equivalent math/logic constructs, how to manipulate those constructs in the digital computer domain and then convert that back to the physical electrical effect needed. Once you have that skill set you don't see circuits in the same way as before. Your brain abstracts analog functionality and problem solving into the digital domain easily with practice.
 
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ElectricSpidey

Joined Dec 2, 2017
1,815
I just finished working out a problem that took 2 days to get a handle on, the reason...a simple quirk of I2C I wasn't aware of, and no mention of it in the data sheet.

The moral to the story...I haven't got a clue, I just wanted to tell someone. :)

(perseverance)
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
1,110
I'm helping another guy to figure-out his Fan-Controller in another Thread,
he doesn't understand the FET-Drive Requirements required of his Micro-Controller for PWM use,
and probably has severe noise problems coming in with his Temp-Sensor Signal.
These are all Linear / Analogue problems that will be with us for some time to come.

And, there is a lot to be said for a Circuit that always does exactly what is expected of it,
instantly, every single time, or continuously, for as long as power is applied.

Trim-Pots are wonderful things.

Everything has it's advantages, and dis-advantages.

A Bug in a Computer Program can instantly destroy hundreds,
or thousands, of Dollars worth of Equipment.

Drones would not be possible without tiny Micro-Controllers, running at Ghz speeds,
they would also not be possible without ~50-plus Amp SMD MOSFETs.

The first Electronic-Computers used Analogue-Vacuum-Tubes to solve Math problems.
.
.
.
 
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