A single switch to control two circuits

EM Fields

Joined Jun 8, 2016
583
Hi all,

This is the switch I am using:

http://www.tapeswitch.com/Mats/CVP.html

To control this:

http://www.kramercanada.ca/mobile/#productitem?pid=2913

When some stands on the mat. The input selection should switch.

Bouncing of signal from sitch is very interesting.

I would say max latency is under threshold at which it could be perceived.

Thsnks!
According to page 7 of the user manual:

VS211-HA2 remote control wiring.png

all you have to do is connect the mat switch across REMOTE IN1 and G or IN2 and G depending on which channel you want to come up when someone steps on the mat.
 

Thread Starter

Thenextman

Joined Feb 3, 2017
42
According to page 7 of the user manual:

View attachment 127013

all you have to do is connect the mat switch across REMOTE IN1 and G or IN2 and G depending on which channel you want to come up when someone steps on the mat.
I do not think it would switch back if this was done. Would just stay on in 2. The idea is the it also switches when the button is pressed and released.
 

EM Fields

Joined Jun 8, 2016
583
I do not think it would switch back if this was done. Would just stay on in 2. The idea is the it also switches when the button is pressed and released.
If you've got channel 1 set up as default, then when someone steps on the mat it'll switch to channel 2 and stay on channel 2 as long as the switch is made.

Then, when the switch opens because no one's on the mat, it'll switch back to channel 1 in 10 seconds. Try it?

RTFM! :)
 
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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,704
all you have to do is connect the mat switch across REMOTE IN1 and G or IN2 and G depending on which channel you want to come up when someone steps on the mat.
The TS wants to switch to mode 2 when someone is present on the mat. However, when they step off the mat he wants to switch back to mode 1. (or vice versa) Stepping on the mat will switch to mode 2 and will stay in that mode until there's a command to switch back to mode 1.

I've wondered if he can't just throw a resistor on mode 1 forcing it into mode 1 whenever there is no input to mode 2. I don't know if that would work - or if that might damage the equipment. But if that was all:

Step Pad Switching.png
 
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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
4,704
EDIT TO MY ENTIRE SERIES OF COMMENTS:

@EM Fields has a good point. I went back through the posts and found the link to the manual, and yes, if dip switch #1 is in the ON position then the unit will revert back to mode 1 as soon as 10 seconds after the tape switch goes off. So in retrospect, all you needed was dip switch 1 set to ON and the step pad connected to 2G you would have exactly what you wanted without all the work.

Sorry to say, but Mr Fields is right. Read the manual.
 

Thread Starter

Thenextman

Joined Feb 3, 2017
42
If you've got channel 1 set up as default, then when someone steps on the mat it'll switch to channel 2 and stay on channel 2 as long as the switch is made.

Then, when the switch opens because no one's on the mat, it'll switch back to channel 1 in 10 seconds. Try it?

RTFM! :)
Lol - trust me, I read the manual. A 10 second lag would not be appropriate for the application. It had to switch back instantly - at least that is what we agreed to with the client.

In retrospect, it may have been worth the delay to avoid all of this diode silliness.

Instant switch is what they want and have now though.
 

EM Fields

Joined Jun 8, 2016
583
Lol - trust me, I read the manual. A 10 second lag would not be appropriate for the application. It had to switch back instantly - at least that is what we agreed to with the client.

In retrospect, it may have been worth the delay to avoid all of this diode silliness.

Instant switch is what they want and have now though.
OK, I think I have a handle on the relay problem.
This is a link to Panasonic's CB relay data sheet, those relays being pretty much what you have in your widget:
https://www.panasonic-electric-works.com/pew/eu/downloads/ds_61202_en_cb.pdf

And here's an excerpt from the data sheet which describes a relay just like yours:

Panasonic CB relay.png
Notice that the MINIMUM current the relay's supposed to switch is 1 ampere, and that's because when it's switching lower than that, the plasma that forms when the contacts open isn't strong enough to blast the switching gunk off the contacts and keep them clean. The usual failure mode is that the contact resistance increases over time and eventually gets to the point where the contacts won't switch the load properly. Like allowing the "timeout" your client doesn't like, to happen.

In your application, the currents being switched in REMOTE mode are probably in the low tens of milliamperes, so the solution would be to use a SIGNAL relay designed to switch low currents. Something like this, maybe:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g5v_1.pdf
 
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Thread Starter

Thenextman

Joined Feb 3, 2017
42
OK, I think I have a handle on the relay problem.
This is a link to Panasonic's CB relay data sheet, those relays being pretty much what you have in your widget:
https://www.panasonic-electric-works.com/pew/eu/downloads/ds_61202_en_cb.pdf

And here's an excerpt from the data sheet which describes a relay just like yours:

View attachment 127024
Notice that the MINIMUM current the relay's supposed to switch is 1 ampere, and that's because when it's switching lower than that, the plasma that forms when the contacts open isn't strong enough to blast the switching gunk off the contacts and keep them clean. The usual failure mode is that the contact resistance increases over time and eventually gets to the point where the contacts won't switch the load properly. Like allowing the "timeout" your client doesn't like, to happen.

In your application, the currents being switched in REMOTE mode are probably in the low tens of milliamperes, so the solution would be to use a SIGNAL relay designed to switch low currents. Something like this, maybe:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g5v_1.pdf
EM - this was a concern of mine! Figured it would be fine as the installation was only to be used approximately 9 days - maybe 2000 switches for its lifetime.

Do you think the lack of diode is also an issue?

The situation now is that the unit is across the country in storage, and is to be installed next Thursday. I did include an extra relay (same type I had before) to allow for a swap if anything happened similar to what you describe.

Think we're good for another 3 days of use on a new relay, or would you wore up a replacement with diode and lower current rating with haste, and ship it to them?

I'm not sure I can get the relay quickly enough! I'm leaning towards just telling them to replace the relay with the unused spare.
 

EM Fields

Joined Jun 8, 2016
583
EM - this was a concern of mine! Figured it would be fine as the installation was only to be used approximately 9 days - maybe 2000 switches for its lifetime. Do you think the lack of diode is also an issue?
I don't, but I don't know a lot about the switch so I'd go ahead and install one just for peace of mind.
The situation now is that the unit is across the country in storage, and is to be installed next Thursday.
Day after tomorrow, or next week?
I did include an extra relay (same type I had before) to allow for a swap if anything happened similar to what you describe. Think we're good for another 3 days of use on a new relay,
I wouldn't even want to guess... Remember Murphy's law?
or would you wore up a replacement with diode and lower current rating with haste, and ship it to them?
Yup.
I'm not sure I can get the relay quickly enough! I'm leaning towards just telling them to replace the relay with the unused spare.
Whatever you recommend they do in the short term, I'd work like hell to get a signal relay replacement to them just in case the replacement they have on hand fails.
 
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Thread Starter

Thenextman

Joined Feb 3, 2017
42
I don't, but I don't know a lot about the switch so I'd go ahead and install one just for peace of mind.

Day after tomorrow, or next week?

I wouldn't even want to guess... Remember Murphy's law?

Yup.

Whatever you recommend they do in the short term, I'd work like hell to get a signal relay replacement to them just in case the replacement they have on hand fails.
Wise man EM - it's next Thursday. I will do my best to put together an alternate relay for shipping on Monday. Will have to be sneaky - my boss will lose it if he finds out! Hopefully I can do it on the cheap.

Thanks EM
 
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