220v induction motor
- Thread starter ShaunRode
- Start date
MaxHeadRoom
- Joined Jul 18, 2013
- 28,698
Is this a 2 speed or a dual voltage motor?
Normally the run winding is the lowest resistance, the start (cap) winding would be the higher one.
Max.
Normally the run winding is the lowest resistance, the start (cap) winding would be the higher one.
Max.
If the motor originally had capacitors then it is a single phase motor. The term delta (And star.) have no significance on single phase. They are use with respect to three phase supplies and motors. (Or other types of load.) A VFD is only used with three phase motors.
Are you sure that you have done the continuity tests correctly ? If you have and there is only continuity between two of the 6 wires then there is something wrong with the motor. Double check your tests. Lable the wires with numbers 1 to 6 Test from 1 to 2 then 1 to 3 then 1 to 4 then 1 to 5 then 1 to 6. Next check from 2 to 3 then 2 to 4 then 2 to 5 then 2 to 6. (You do not need to do 2 to 1 as you have already done this) Continue until you have tested all combinations. (I think this will be 15 tests.) Report the results of this these tests.
Les
Are you sure that you have done the continuity tests correctly ? If you have and there is only continuity between two of the 6 wires then there is something wrong with the motor. Double check your tests. Lable the wires with numbers 1 to 6 Test from 1 to 2 then 1 to 3 then 1 to 4 then 1 to 5 then 1 to 6. Next check from 2 to 3 then 2 to 4 then 2 to 5 then 2 to 6. (You do not need to do 2 to 1 as you have already done this) Continue until you have tested all combinations. (I think this will be 15 tests.) Report the results of this these tests.
Les
Wires I see are coloured - just there are two logics to apply such: 1) someone will use a colour to mark the same coil ends. One hole are beginnings and other hole are endings. If Your Ohmmeter says that is true, You have to decide do the coils are made for Y or for Delta. At EU mostly the coils are turned for 220V but network is 220/380, therefore it is Y.
If so then connect the every wire of one bunch each to some of phase of network and all wires of other bunch together, and let it hang, or better switch to earth or nul-wire. If engine goes very slow (ex: one turn per sec) and very noisy, somewhere is mistake, switch out asap, You have 2 seconds to not loss the windings.
If engine is going well but the power is unexpectingly small, ca 1/3 of expected power, this engine was designed for Delta circuit. Then rearrange the wires in the manner: right blue with left yellow, the right yellow with a left red, the right red with the blue left. All connected pairs are going each to own phase. If need to reverse, just change by the place two of network wires in plug, but not touch the sequence of coils. If motor turns very slow and with a bad noise, You have 2 seconds to switch it out to save it - its indicator that it is wrong sequenced.
If Your region have some very rare other voltages like as 36V, 42V, 48V, 56V, 110V, 127V etc, anyway make wiring in this sequence, because it is only way to logically secure the windings. If You do at first contrary, You risk with a burn-off. Motors normally are region specific, thus the voltages of windings ought to pass to the local networks.
By the way, if You are more prone to science, measure the one selected phase current while motor turns at no-load conditions. If it is less than 5% (better 1%) of marked maximum current determined by power, it means that motor feels good. If it is more - something goes wrong. For example, 3,3 kW 380/220V means 3300W/220V=15Amp divided to 3 phases=5 Amp in phase. Expected no-load current between 0,05 and 0,15A. If mistakenly connect Y instead of Delta, this criterion will give a harshly small current, for example 5 mA - that should lead You to idea to try-out the Y. If needed was Y but You applied Delta, then this criterion will show it out immediately. Anyway, if after first 10 minutes in mechanically no-load conditions the temperature of motor becomes higher than 5 C over the previous T, then something is not good. Search for reason (may be friction between stator/rotor, may be rusted bearings, may be short-circuit in one winding turn or sth else.
If so then connect the every wire of one bunch each to some of phase of network and all wires of other bunch together, and let it hang, or better switch to earth or nul-wire. If engine goes very slow (ex: one turn per sec) and very noisy, somewhere is mistake, switch out asap, You have 2 seconds to not loss the windings.
If engine is going well but the power is unexpectingly small, ca 1/3 of expected power, this engine was designed for Delta circuit. Then rearrange the wires in the manner: right blue with left yellow, the right yellow with a left red, the right red with the blue left. All connected pairs are going each to own phase. If need to reverse, just change by the place two of network wires in plug, but not touch the sequence of coils. If motor turns very slow and with a bad noise, You have 2 seconds to switch it out to save it - its indicator that it is wrong sequenced.
If Your region have some very rare other voltages like as 36V, 42V, 48V, 56V, 110V, 127V etc, anyway make wiring in this sequence, because it is only way to logically secure the windings. If You do at first contrary, You risk with a burn-off. Motors normally are region specific, thus the voltages of windings ought to pass to the local networks.
By the way, if You are more prone to science, measure the one selected phase current while motor turns at no-load conditions. If it is less than 5% (better 1%) of marked maximum current determined by power, it means that motor feels good. If it is more - something goes wrong. For example, 3,3 kW 380/220V means 3300W/220V=15Amp divided to 3 phases=5 Amp in phase. Expected no-load current between 0,05 and 0,15A. If mistakenly connect Y instead of Delta, this criterion will give a harshly small current, for example 5 mA - that should lead You to idea to try-out the Y. If needed was Y but You applied Delta, then this criterion will show it out immediately. Anyway, if after first 10 minutes in mechanically no-load conditions the temperature of motor becomes higher than 5 C over the previous T, then something is not good. Search for reason (may be friction between stator/rotor, may be rusted bearings, may be short-circuit in one winding turn or sth else.
RE:Les Jones
That is an algorithm if You suspect that idiot was wound this engine. That may be of course, but very very very rarely. If really You suspect this is Your`s case, there are better, faster and less risky way to indicate the phase winding beginning from ending.
Just apply the 1,5Volt battery cell and Voltmeter. Mark all windings, ex: apply each winding the certain colour both ends. Then connect together all three colours, but only one wire of. For the very short period connect the cell to one wire against common three. The all other two MUST beat the voltmeter to one and the same side when You connect and contrary polarity when You disconnect. If not, change in one chosen colour both ends within places (revert). Now You have two phases aligned. Then go with battery to one of those aligned coils (name it `second`) and measure in both rest of coils. Now the `first` coil MUST be in align with the `third`. If not, revert the first too. Now three ends together are beginnings and separate wires are ends.
That is an algorithm if You suspect that idiot was wound this engine. That may be of course, but very very very rarely. If really You suspect this is Your`s case, there are better, faster and less risky way to indicate the phase winding beginning from ending.
Just apply the 1,5Volt battery cell and Voltmeter. Mark all windings, ex: apply each winding the certain colour both ends. Then connect together all three colours, but only one wire of. For the very short period connect the cell to one wire against common three. The all other two MUST beat the voltmeter to one and the same side when You connect and contrary polarity when You disconnect. If not, change in one chosen colour both ends within places (revert). Now You have two phases aligned. Then go with battery to one of those aligned coils (name it `second`) and measure in both rest of coils. Now the `first` coil MUST be in align with the `third`. If not, revert the first too. Now three ends together are beginnings and separate wires are ends.
RE: Max
Please DON`T mix the 3-phase motors with 1-phase capacitor motors or 1-phase resistive start motors. Last two has FOUR wires and NEVER the 6 (the wire transfer between the stator both coils in smaller motors are always done by inside and not lead out). If wire count is six, that MUST be a three-phase engine. If no, I ought to divide myself by nil because of the shame.
By the way, there exist a very small probability that guy who winded this motor is ultra-clever (sometimes more worse if compare with dumb). Then the way of thoughts are: I shall help those guys who will use this engine and already shall mark with a blue both ends to be connected to blue phase, with a red those to be connected to red phase and with yellow those to yellow phase. This is yet extra-rare case, of those thousands of engines I had to have a deal with in my life I remember something like that only twice.
Please DON`T mix the 3-phase motors with 1-phase capacitor motors or 1-phase resistive start motors. Last two has FOUR wires and NEVER the 6 (the wire transfer between the stator both coils in smaller motors are always done by inside and not lead out). If wire count is six, that MUST be a three-phase engine. If no, I ought to divide myself by nil because of the shame.
By the way, there exist a very small probability that guy who winded this motor is ultra-clever (sometimes more worse if compare with dumb). Then the way of thoughts are: I shall help those guys who will use this engine and already shall mark with a blue both ends to be connected to blue phase, with a red those to be connected to red phase and with yellow those to yellow phase. This is yet extra-rare case, of those thousands of engines I had to have a deal with in my life I remember something like that only twice.
RE:""2 pairs have continuity the red and blue pairs red measures lower than blue and yellow Zero""
This sound VERY BAD. Anyway 6 wires means three phase motor. But if resistivity are different, that is sign of only two conclusions can be made - that is one phase engine, or just windings are cross-beaten (read burned). Smell it in near, do You have an characteristic smell of burned insulation? Rewind, it costs the money, but asynchronous engines may work decades after rewinding, in comparison with collector engines which rarely work more than few weeks after rewinding services.
Ouch, I forgot about one rather rare type of engines of two-speed switchable. But that are really rarity, and then one-phase engine may have more than 3 or 4 ends out.
This sound VERY BAD. Anyway 6 wires means three phase motor. But if resistivity are different, that is sign of only two conclusions can be made - that is one phase engine, or just windings are cross-beaten (read burned). Smell it in near, do You have an characteristic smell of burned insulation? Rewind, it costs the money, but asynchronous engines may work decades after rewinding, in comparison with collector engines which rarely work more than few weeks after rewinding services.
Ouch, I forgot about one rather rare type of engines of two-speed switchable. But that are really rarity, and then one-phase engine may have more than 3 or 4 ends out.
I looked bit more carefully to the picture: my opinion - it is more than sure made out of factory the 3-phase motor, BUT the both capacitors indicate that it was used in 1-phase regime. Then motor losses about 1/3 of power, but may go only by 2 network wires instead of 3 or 4 (null) or 5 (earth).
Then the most probable thing is that all loads in Your region are switched between one phase and null. Is it?? Rarely not, them may be switched between both phases. Is it?? First case You have 220/380 V Network. Second case You have 127/220 V. You should chose the delta or Y let the coils receive an appropriate voltage. And now, listen, the difference from `normal` three phase case. In series with one any chosen phase wire switch the smallest capacitor of both. An parallel to it switch the other capacitor via the `startup` button (like door-bell button only designed for bigger current). That`s all.
If now You have to reverse the motor direction, just change the wire in which capacitor sits.
If that was rewound, probably winding guy chosen to adjust it to mixed resistive-capacitative regime (yet never met such wonder-work in the practice). If so, then resistivity of windings MAY differ, like as it is in every fridge engines.Then name the SMALL resistivity endings `work coils` and high resistivity coils `the start-up coils`. Apply the both names ends together to the null, and opened ends common to lonely phase. The third coil then has capacitor in series and is parallel to those both. If the direction of this will be wrong, it will brake the engine, if the direction will be right, it will accelerate it. However, I don`t believe it may be the right case for You.
Then the most probable thing is that all loads in Your region are switched between one phase and null. Is it?? Rarely not, them may be switched between both phases. Is it?? First case You have 220/380 V Network. Second case You have 127/220 V. You should chose the delta or Y let the coils receive an appropriate voltage. And now, listen, the difference from `normal` three phase case. In series with one any chosen phase wire switch the smallest capacitor of both. An parallel to it switch the other capacitor via the `startup` button (like door-bell button only designed for bigger current). That`s all.
If now You have to reverse the motor direction, just change the wire in which capacitor sits.
If that was rewound, probably winding guy chosen to adjust it to mixed resistive-capacitative regime (yet never met such wonder-work in the practice). If so, then resistivity of windings MAY differ, like as it is in every fridge engines.Then name the SMALL resistivity endings `work coils` and high resistivity coils `the start-up coils`. Apply the both names ends together to the null, and opened ends common to lonely phase. The third coil then has capacitor in series and is parallel to those both. If the direction of this will be wrong, it will brake the engine, if the direction will be right, it will accelerate it. However, I don`t believe it may be the right case for You.
Then Red is the shunt winding, Blue is the capacitor winding, Yellow sounds like the run/start switch to disconnect the extra capacitor.
Can you post a picture of the name plate on the motor, do any of the coloured wires measure between other colours?
Last edited:
MaxHeadRoom
- Joined Jul 18, 2013
- 28,698
I'm not aware I mentioned 3 phase in my post?
And NO. if it has six conductors it does Not Have to be a 3 phase motor.
Max.
Last edited:
RE:"MaxHeadRoom:<<< if it has siz conductors it does Not Have to be a 3 phase motor>>>
I must admit I am not American but European, however here such form of motor (fins, outlook, form-factor, power etc many more at sense level) says it can be exclusively for 3-phased and here thousands and thousands of motors and no one out may find one-phased type but with 6 wires (except multi-speed). But I agree, that theoretically it can exist and may be Americans are so well prone to produce specially such, to swirl the heads of European engineers and Chinese as well, that You have exactly one such. Traditions of region always have a proper very important role.
However show me please where to attach the two `unneded` additional wires:
link 1 for 3 phase = post Nr 16 at https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/3-phase-water-pump-problems.83631/
link 2 for one-phase = the circuit of [URL='http://www.capacitorguide.com/motor-starting-capacitor/[/URL]']www.capacitorguide.com/motor-starting-capacitor/[/URL]
and 3 for resistive startup = https://www.elprocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/split.jpg
and link 4 for three phase to one phase network connected (two basic versions however exists the altered versions with interrupted null what are more energy-savy) = https://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02519.png for Y and for Delta https://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02520.png[/QUOTE]
I must admit I am not American but European, however here such form of motor (fins, outlook, form-factor, power etc many more at sense level) says it can be exclusively for 3-phased and here thousands and thousands of motors and no one out may find one-phased type but with 6 wires (except multi-speed). But I agree, that theoretically it can exist and may be Americans are so well prone to produce specially such, to swirl the heads of European engineers and Chinese as well, that You have exactly one such. Traditions of region always have a proper very important role.
However show me please where to attach the two `unneded` additional wires:
link 1 for 3 phase = post Nr 16 at https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/3-phase-water-pump-problems.83631/
link 2 for one-phase = the circuit of [URL='http://www.capacitorguide.com/motor-starting-capacitor/[/URL]']www.capacitorguide.com/motor-starting-capacitor/[/URL]
and 3 for resistive startup = https://www.elprocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/split.jpg
and link 4 for three phase to one phase network connected (two basic versions however exists the altered versions with interrupted null what are more energy-savy) = https://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02519.png for Y and for Delta https://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02520.png[/QUOTE]
Last edited:
MaxHeadRoom
- Joined Jul 18, 2013
- 28,698
I have worked on three continents and found motors to be pretty much the same wherever you go!
Max.↑
This is exactly what I wanted to say. And it LOOKS like traditional 3-phase. Is it truly or not, that`s another story, but if it would be russian I would bet it is A4 model.
Hi Guys the only info I can find on the motor casing for the caps is single phase induction motor 220v 3hp (2.2kw) it has no diagrams no winding info no numbering or labels, I do not have as much experience as the majority of you, but being as each set of thre consisist of standard 380v coloration and each pair is from one side of the motor this would lead me to believe it is 380 as a standard wired up for single phase via caps simulating star delta startup? regarding vfd I have a few running 4 pole motors that are 380 and the vfd's supply 230 out via delta, having to bridge u1-u2/v1-v2/w1-w2. Would this not be the case here? Only switched to 220v as it is a 200lt movable compressor.? The other info I managed to find is yl90l-2 but everything I have searched shows nothing like the motor I have. TradeAIR 3hp 200lt compressor is the brand it is fitted to, I'm assuming it is a Chinese motor but not sure how this can help, your help is gladly appreciated!
My suspicion is the same as Dogydave's in post 12. I asked for the tests in post #6 to support or disprove this theory. (I must have Missed reading post #5)
This is how I think it should be connected
Neutral - to one of the red and one of the blue wires.
Live - to the other red wire and one of the yellow wires and one wire from the run capacitor
Connect the other blue wire to the other wire from the run capacitor and one wire from the start capacitor.
Connect the other wire from the start capacitor to the other yellow wire.
The start capacitor is the one with the largest value. To reverse the motor swap over either the red wires OR the blue wires. (BUT NOT BOTH.)
If you can spin the motor up to near it's opperating speed with an electric drill or some other method then the resistance between the yellow wires should change from zero to infinity if the yellow wires are to the centrifugal switch.
Les.
This is how I think it should be connected
Neutral - to one of the red and one of the blue wires.
Live - to the other red wire and one of the yellow wires and one wire from the run capacitor
Connect the other blue wire to the other wire from the run capacitor and one wire from the start capacitor.
Connect the other wire from the start capacitor to the other yellow wire.
The start capacitor is the one with the largest value. To reverse the motor swap over either the red wires OR the blue wires. (BUT NOT BOTH.)
If you can spin the motor up to near it's opperating speed with an electric drill or some other method then the resistance between the yellow wires should change from zero to infinity if the yellow wires are to the centrifugal switch.
Les.
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