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Why Learning to Code is So Hard
- Thread starter King2
- Start date
No SNOBOL with "SPITBOL extensions"?
djsfantasi
- Joined Apr 11, 2010
- 9,237
I was part of a team that in 1978, wrote a proprietary hierarchical database system from scratch in Fortran with a smattering of DecSystem20 assembly. I personally wrote the entire search system in four days - a highlight of my career.
Yes, APL a true innovation, still vastly under appreciated, a superb programming language.
APL is to coding what algebra is to mathematics, a rich and compact notation, no other programming language emphasizes notation like APL, even modern functional languages fall short when it comes to notation.
APL came from Ken Iverson's work on notation, originally he had no interest in computing or programming languages. He was extremely interested in the benefits of good notation, he was Prof. of Mathematics.
So APL is not a language designed from scratch for writing code, it is the result of automating the behavior inherent in the notational system Iverson developed.
Here's his paper explaining all this, it was part of his lecture in 1979 when he received the Turing Award. This is where everyone should begin with APL.
Notation as a tool of thought.
APL Sandbox (use the mouse to select symbols, few of us have APL keyboards!)
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I wrote a softball team fielding roster with APL.
I had to incorporate:
It was fun putting it together in APL. I cannot conceive of how I could have done it easier with another language.
I had to incorporate:
- players being absent
- not sure if they are coming, or coming to the game late
- rules such as minimum of three females on the field
- giving players variety on the field
- different fielding abilities
- players who would not play in certain positions, such as catcher or shortstop
- etc.
It was fun putting it together in APL. I cannot conceive of how I could have done it easier with another language.
Interesting. What 3 languages are you using?
The same thing happens in spoken languages. I get my French and Spanish words mixed up.
Hi B,
I also started with BASIC, and my son's new Spectrum, and I have never been able to change, so I'm stuck here on #1
Camerart
panic mode
- Joined Oct 10, 2011
- 4,982
agreed... this is popular and easy to learn. also IDE is smarter/friendlier than C# etc even both are parts of same studio version.
there is no shortage of programming languages, many are geared to specific product or platform (PLCS, robots etc.). anyone doing programming at any level will sooner or later run into other languages too. what matters is understanding core principles as they are applicable to any language:
loops, basic data types, arrays/structures/enumerations, scope and life of variables, data manipulation (strings, masked operations, casting), file operations, passing parameters etc. then one can build on that...
there is no shortage of programming languages, many are geared to specific product or platform (PLCS, robots etc.). anyone doing programming at any level will sooner or later run into other languages too. what matters is understanding core principles as they are applicable to any language:
loops, basic data types, arrays/structures/enumerations, scope and life of variables, data manipulation (strings, masked operations, casting), file operations, passing parameters etc. then one can build on that...
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Hi MrC and P,
If you look at some of my projects on this forum, you'll see that I'm not a weekend programmer, as I spend hours every day, trying to move forward, with them.
I'm incapable of changing I'm afraid, and with the support of members from here and elseware, I've been able to make projects that are otherwise impossible
C
Hello there,
I got to this thread a little late so i may be repeating some things already mentioned but i hope not.
Programming is a little difficult for many reasons. There are a lot of key words to learn for one and the correct syntax.
I have heard people say that, "No matter how hard i try to program this there is always a problem that turns up and has to be fixed in the code. It's like never ending".
I think that speaks to the complexity of things where as the complexity increases there are more things that can go wrong, and as you can figure out from all the 'updates' being distributed for operating systems there actually is no end to it as that statement alludes to. You just have to get used to the fact that if you create a complex program you may be working on it for the rest of your natural life. This doesnt mean that it wont be useful though as you may get many hours of use out of it eventually without a problem as you fix the bugs one by one.
Another reason is that the code has to be tested and tested and tested, and the more aware you are about the things that can or might go wrong, the faster you will get the program up and running. That takes experience and some IQ.
You also have to develop a personal style. Once you begin to compile a list of things that have worked for you in the past, you will find you can reuse those ideas many times over again and you wont have to debug as much because they have already been proved to work successfully.
To mention one case where this helped a lot was when i was using a different language to create programs then translate them into C or C++ code and compile them using a C compiler so the program could run faster. I quickly realized that if i stick to a certain methodology i could convert the alternate language code into C code really fast without even using a translation program which BTW was not available at the time.
A math background also helps a lot. You will encounter times when you have to calculate things out in the routines and knowing how some math expressions can be reduced can help there. It makes the program work faster and also without any calculation errors. For example, imagine programming a calculator program to add and subtract and solve equations and stuff like that. A math background will help here a lot. Scientific programs require this kind of knowledge a lot because there are calculations that have to be made and they have to be accurate.
As you get going though you will find that it gets a little easier, but the never ending phenomenon never goes away. Programs have to be 'maintained' and that means not only correcting errors but also improving and adapting to the world as it changes.
It also is imperative to have reference material. That means not only for the programming language itself, but for the technologies that the program has to interface with. Without that information or info on how to obtain it, the program ends up dead in the water. The specifications have to be outlined and dealt with accordingly.
I hate to say it, but some people give up somewhere along the way. That could be because their interest just isnt strong enough to continue once they start to encounter some obstacles that come up in programming and after all have a life outside of programming to live. If the individual has enough interest though i think they will continue to improve and see that they are improving and be rewarded in that respect as their programs get better and better with time.
So i guess all i can say is good luck and i hope you can get through this early learning part it's probably the hardest part for you right now.
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Hi MrC,
Good term!
Professional programmers who program in BASIC, I'm surprised! Why don't they follow the herd, and program in C, C+?
C.
What I mean is there are professionals whose job is to create apps in Excel or BASIC and nothing more. They call themselves programmers.
Hi,
I'm not sure if anyone will see this as it's an old thread.
I was just watching a video regarding how hacckers break into a system.
It was above my head, but I picked up a couple of things! In this thread the are mentions of many languages, and C++ seems to be popular at the moment.
The thing I picked up on, is that C is such a powerful language that accidental not perfect CODE can be the cause of an exploit, due to an overload attack, if the CODE doesn't have protection. Some operating systems, switch this protection off if the are APPs that are old, and the CODE can't be re-written, as there's too much in an operating system.
The suggested language for better CODE is RUST.
As mentioned this is all above my head, but there it is, if I've got it right?
C.
I'm not sure if anyone will see this as it's an old thread.
I was just watching a video regarding how hacckers break into a system.
It was above my head, but I picked up a couple of things! In this thread the are mentions of many languages, and C++ seems to be popular at the moment.
The thing I picked up on, is that C is such a powerful language that accidental not perfect CODE can be the cause of an exploit, due to an overload attack, if the CODE doesn't have protection. Some operating systems, switch this protection off if the are APPs that are old, and the CODE can't be re-written, as there's too much in an operating system.
The suggested language for better CODE is RUST.
As mentioned this is all above my head, but there it is, if I've got it right?
C.
