Hello there,

As the title suggests, we are up to USB 99.3 but of course that's a little joke. This rest of this is not a joke but it's getting nutty how the USB specifications are changing.

First, USB 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2 are all USB 3.2 now with a 'generation' number suffix.
USB 3.0 is now USB 3.2 gen1
USB 3.1 is now USB 3.2 gen 2
USB 3.2 is now USB 3.2 2x2.

gen 1 is 5Gb/s
gen 2 is 10Gb/s
gen 2x2 is 20Gb/s
(Gb/s is gigabits per second)

There is also USB 4.0 coming out that will be 40GB/s but might also be called Thunderbolt 3 (not sure about that though and by now USB 4.0 might already be out).

Also, there is now a "PD" specifier.
PD refers to the power level that the USB port can handle for devices such as charging.
The max is 100 watts i think but not all ports no matter what gen they are will go up to that level. I suspect the min will be 900ma at 5v (for the USB 3.2 ports which include gen1 through gen 2x2).

Please add to this if you have any more info or correct or modify anything you think is incorrect.

If you look at some new motherboards you'll see these new specs with the 'gen' suffixes.
It's unfortunate that some device manufacturers make devices that work with USB 3.1 but not with USB 3.2 gen 1 which is supposed to be the same and that would be the only 3.1 on the board.

I'll add more too as i learn more about this.

 

Wish we could just skip all the steps and get to a 10 TB/sec transfer rate. This is important for audio, video and transferring backup drives quickly, most people won‘t need it.

 

Yeah, so we can stream 41,666,667 channels of 24bit audio at 100K samples per second.

Bob

 

it does seem silly doesn’t it?

 

Wish we could just skip all the steps and get to a 10 TB/sec transfer rate. This is important for audio, video and transferring backup drives quickly, most people won‘t need it.

I think you need to use optical transistors to do that. That's fast.

However, it can be 1000TB/sec but still transfer at 100MB/sec because the target device seems to be the most limiting factor these days. SATA drives (platter type) are so slow. Maybe M2 type can cut it.

 

Ninty nine three. BAM
The hip home of inter-device communications.

 

The whole thing is screamingly silly. It is all an effort to one-up the others and sell useless products to folks who will always buy the very bleeding edge products because they are the newest thing.
How are we going to get 100 watts out of a USB connector that is probably not good for even five amps? And at 5 volts, 100 watts will demand 20 amps, and that will heat the #24 quite a bit. It will also run down the laptop power pack in a rather shorter time, if it does not set the connector on fire first.
And who needs that blistering speed? Backing up 100GB at one GB per second is 100 seconds, not a bad wait no matter what, except for those who are neither willing nor able to focus their attention for 100 seconds. They get no sympathy nor any slack from me.
The whole USB concept was mostly to make the previous products obsolete and sell more hardware. It did work that way, but look at the price. The only really god thing is that suddenly the push to make every power connector incompatible with all others stopped being hardware when it was realized that it can be done in software.

This is the end of this rant.

 

I think you need to use optical transistors to do that. That's fast.

However, it can be 1000TB/sec but still transfer at 100MB/sec because the target device seems to be the most limiting factor these days. SATA drives (platter type) are so slow. Maybe M2 type can cut it.

It has come a long way in a short time. I remember waiting minutes to load and back up each time for what amounted to 3-5 minutes of finished project. Sometimes the Processing while rendering and saving was 1:1. It was horrible when you made a mistake and had to do it over again. Its A little like LTSpice when it goes into complex calculation and it take minutes to finish and half your productivity is wasted waiting... or your late hours become even later.

 

The whole thing is screamingly silly. It is all an effort to one-up the others and sell useless products to folks who will always buy the very bleeding edge products because they are the newest thing.
How are we going to get 100 watts out of a USB connector that is probably not good for even five amps? And at 5 volts, 100 watts will demand 20 amps, and that will heat the #24 quite a bit. It will also run down the laptop power pack in a rather shorter time, if it does not set the connector on fire first.
And who needs that blistering speed? Backing up 100GB at one GB per second is 100 seconds, not a bad wait no matter what, except for those who are neither willing nor able to focus their attention for 100 seconds. They get no sympathy nor any slack from me.
The whole USB concept was mostly to make the previous products obsolete and sell more hardware. It did work that way, but look at the price. The only really god thing is that suddenly the push to make every power connector incompatible with all others stopped being hardware when it was realized that it can be done in software.

This is the end of this rant.

Hi and thanks for the reply.

Well, you may be happy to hear this but the voltage is not and has not been limited to 5 volts anymore. It went up to 9, then 12, and now up to 20 volts. So 100 watts would require 5 amps at that 20 volts. That should make you happy
So the USB connection not only negotiates the current level it now also negotiates the voltage as well from 5v up to 20v. My phone takes up to 9v, and my power pack takes up to 12v. When the connection is first made the voltage is 5v, then jumps up to 9v, then up to 12v. It takes maybe 1/2 second to make each jump. I think if things get too hot it will come back down but not sure about that yet although i have seen it come back down.
Also, the wiring went up to #22 gauge too. That's interesting because i only used #22 AWG wire for 1 amp, but i think they are also limiting the cable length to 1 meter. I'll have to double check that. The length plays a part in the current rating too because less length means less resistance. Does the wire get hot though at 5 amps? I havent tested that yet maybe someone else here would want to do that.

 

Hi and thanks for the reply.

Well, you may be happy to hear this but the voltage is not and has not been limited to 5 volts anymore. It went up to 9, then 12, and now up to 20 volts. So 100 watts would require 5 amps at that 20 volts. That should make you happy
So the USB connection not only negotiates the current level it now also negotiates the voltage as well from 5v up to 20v. My phone takes up to 9v, and my power pack takes up to 12v. When the connection is first made the voltage is 5v, then jumps up to 9v, then up to 12v. It takes maybe 1/2 second to make each jump. I think if things get too hot it will come back down but not sure about that yet although i have seen it come back down.
Also, the wiring went up to #22 gauge too. That's interesting because i only used #22 AWG wire for 1 amp, but i think they are also limiting the cable length to 1 meter. I'll have to double check that. The length plays a part in the current rating too because less length means less resistance. Does the wire get hot though at 5 amps? I havent tested that yet maybe someone else here would want to do that.

This seems to be a lot like the "Feature Bloat" syndrome that has turned so many products into useless junk over the years. The term "Bloatware" comes to mind as well. It might be OK for devices such as battery chargers, but using one connector to supply multiple voltages and power levels really smells of stupidity. It is bad enough when the 8-pin ethernet connectors increased the allowable power levels to the point that the wiring will be overheating quite a bit, extending that to the USB connector is really a bad idea, adding a whole lot of complexity for a very small benefit, just as a marketing ploy.

 

This seems to be a lot like the "Feature Bloat" syndrome that has turned so many products into useless junk over the years. The term "Bloatware" comes to mind as well. It might be OK for devices such as battery chargers, but using one connector to supply multiple voltages and power levels really smells of stupidity. It is bad enough when the 8-pin ethernet connectors increased the allowable power levels to the point that the wiring will be overheating quite a bit, extending that to the USB connector is really a bad idea, adding a whole lot of complexity for a very small benefit, just as a marketing ploy.

Well maybe they should have invented a connector just for power like they did for the internal computer power supply molex that connects 12v and 5v to the disk drives.
But one of the goals is to make more things compatible and have less waste products like when you buy a new product and get a charger with it, that charger only works with that one device usually.
So by using a combination power and data connector, the host can query the device to see what it wants. That seems to work out pretty well as i have found so far. But the nomenclature gets all mixed up because they keep changing it.

Note we also have USB charger wall warts that can put out 65 watts or more. I guess that is to charge laptops maybe. But see there now, older laptops often have priority connectors and that is a real pain because you have to buy a specific charger in order to charge the laptop, and then if another for a phone and another for a power pack and another for, etc., ect. you end up with a real PILE of wall warts. I must have over 25 wall warts now from the past. Shavers, stuff like that, all take a different wall wart with different connector. So having one that does all the smaller stuff is nice, but they have to get the names to be standard they cant keep changing them too much confusion.

Whether or not the 5 amp scenario works out in the long run i guess we'll have to wait and see. The connector itself seems too small for that though. Also, how long with the USB C standard last when devices come out that draw even more current and require more voltage. We have to wait and see how this peters out.

 

@MrAl you might be interested in the documentation
https://www.usb.org/documents

I like POE, less cabling and works great by increasing voltage. Is it complicated? Not really, it saves copper and with high efficiency DC-DC conversion, pretty straightforward.

 

@MrAl you might be interested in the documentation
https://www.usb.org/documents

I like POE, less cabling and works great by increasing voltage. Is it complicated? Not really, it saves copper and with high efficiency DC-DC conversion, pretty straightforward.

Thanks for the links i'll have to check that stuff out. Looks like a real of info there.

 

Have you seen the latest? USB 4 and Thunderbolt 4

20 - 40 Gbps
48V @ 5A (100 W max)

backwards compatible to USB 2.0

USB4

 

Isn’t it time we dropped the “U” which stands for “Universal”.
Do I remember correctly that the whole idea of USB was to get rid of all the myriad settings that were required for RS232 - different baud rates, different handshaking, different connections depending if it was RTE or RCE - and have a simple universal system, that worked everywhere without adaptors?

 

@Ian0, the "universal" part is only for the end user. The device developer has to jump through hoops to get hardware compatibility, software functionality (across OS's as well) and whatever else is needed to make it work.

No worries, it keeps us employed.

 

Have you seen the latest? USB 4 and Thunderbolt 4

20 - 40 Gbps
48V @ 5A (100 W max)

backwards compatible to USB 2.0

USB4

Yeah amazing huh. And all using the USB C connector.

Next up: Nuclear fusion through the USB C connector: 4 megawatts.

 

Yeah amazing huh. And all using the USB C connector.

Next up: Nuclear fusion through the USB C connector: 4 megawatts.

 

Yeah, so we can stream 41,666,667 channels of 24bit audio at 100K samples per second.

Bob

That would be 100Tb/sec, not 10Tb.

 

When it first was presented the concept showed the USB mouse, keyboard, and monitor. THAT was very dumb, as those three devices use the same interface, at least they did for many years. I see for mouse and keyboard that the USB connector is cheaper, but no other reason to have made the switch. Connecting to them is always the same, isn't it?