Wanna see something cool #2

Thread Starter

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
9,744
Don't know if this is something COOL or something SERIOUS. It has the potential to become serious. It's also something RATHER AWESOME.
 

Thread Starter

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
9,744
Now here's something cool I bet you never thought of:

"Lyrical Zen, a collective of spiritually oriented multimedia artists who create content to inspire human enlightenment offers ancestral mathematics. It's a way to calculate how many ancestors had to exist in order for us to be born. According to their math 4,094 ancestors across 12 generations are required for anyone of us to come into existence."

Soruce: "Those who came before me" By Alisa Dennis (found in magazine) "Lions Roar" July 20 2024 issue; page 19.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,925
Now here's something cool I bet you never thought of:

"Lyrical Zen, a collective of spiritually oriented multimedia artists who create content to inspire human enlightenment offers ancestral mathematics. It's a way to calculate how many ancestors had to exist in order for us to be born. According to their math 4,094 ancestors across 12 generations are required for anyone of us to come into existence."

Soruce: "Those who came before me" By Alisa Dennis (found in magazine) "Lions Roar" July 20 2024 issue; page 19.
Not sure what there is to think about, other than it being some more zen pop pseudo psychobabble (that is also wrong).

It's trivial to show that the total number of ancestors in a classic family tree with n generations before you is

a(n) = 2^(n+1) - 2

So for n=1, that's

a(1) = 2^(1+1) - 2 = 2 (mother and father)

a(2) = 2^(2+1) - 2 = 6 (mother and father and their parents).

For n=12, it's

a(12) = 2^(12+1) - 2 = 8190

The 4094 corresponds to ancestors across 11 generations. Now perhaps they are counting you as one of the twelve generations, but that seems a bit nonsensical since there are no ancestors across your generation. But, if that's they way they want to count it (and if they make it clear in their paper that that's what they are doing), then fine.

But so what? What's magical about twelve generations? A family generation is generally considered to be about 20 to 30 years, so let's call it 25 years, or four generations per century. So we are now about 80 generations since Christ (or since, roughly, Roman times). According to their "ancestral mathematics" each of us needed

4,835,703,278,458,516,698,824,702

Ancestors across those generations, half of whom were in that first generation a bit over 2000 years ago.

Anyone buy that?

By their math, everyone on the planet in around the year 1300 is a direct ancestor of everyone living today.

Anyone buy that?

A decent treatment of "ancestral mathematics" would have to attempt to model the fact that all family trees are degenerate at some point -- the interesting results would be so show how far back a "typical" family tree has to go before it degenerates and how quickly it degenerates as you go further back. That is, of course, going to be very sensitive to time and place throughout history, and that would be the really interesting stuff to see well visualized. I know my grandmother's family tree was degenerate in several places in most of the handful of generations entered in her family Bible -- she talked with me about it when I was about ten years old and although I didn't understand the social and other stigmas and concerns, the conversation stuck with me.

It wasn't that long ago, less than two centuries, when most people never traveled more than a few dozen miles from where they were born. So you don't have to go back very far at all to start finding ancestors that appear multiple times in a family tree. In fact, about 10% of marriages in the world today are between first or second cousins and the practice was much more common in the past (and the not-so-distant past, to boot). Most people wouldn't even know if they were marrying, say, a fifth cousin and if they still live in the same general area that their family has been established in for a century or more, there are almost certainly many such cousins of that, or greater, remove that they know and interact with every day.
 

Thread Starter

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
9,744
Not sure what there is to think about, other than it being some more zen pop pseudo psychobabble (that is also wrong).

It's trivial to show that the total number of ancestors in a classic family tree with n generations before you is

a(n) = 2^(n+1) - 2

So for n=1, that's

a(1) = 2^(1+1) - 2 = 2 (mother and father)

a(2) = 2^(2+1) - 2 = 6 (mother and father and their parents).

For n=12, it's

a(12) = 2^(12+1) - 2 = 8190

The 4094 corresponds to ancestors across 11 generations. Now perhaps they are counting you as one of the twelve generations, but that seems a bit nonsensical since there are no ancestors across your generation. But, if that's they way they want to count it (and if they make it clear in their paper that that's what they are doing), then fine.

But so what? What's magical about twelve generations? A family generation is generally considered to be about 20 to 30 years, so let's call it 25 years, or four generations per century. So we are now about 80 generations since Christ (or since, roughly, Roman times). According to their "ancestral mathematics" each of us needed

4,835,703,278,458,516,698,824,702

Ancestors across those generations, half of whom were in that first generation a bit over 2000 years ago.

Anyone buy that?

By their math, everyone on the planet in around the year 1300 is a direct ancestor of everyone living today.

Anyone buy that?

A decent treatment of "ancestral mathematics" would have to attempt to model the fact that all family trees are degenerate at some point -- the interesting results would be so show how far back a "typical" family tree has to go before it degenerates and how quickly it degenerates as you go further back. That is, of course, going to be very sensitive to time and place throughout history, and that would be the really interesting stuff to see well visualized. I know my grandmother's family tree was degenerate in several places in most of the handful of generations entered in her family Bible -- she talked with me about it when I was about ten years old and although I didn't understand the social and other stigmas and concerns, the conversation stuck with me.

It wasn't that long ago, less than two centuries, when most people never traveled more than a few dozen miles from where they were born. So you don't have to go back very far at all to start finding ancestors that appear multiple times in a family tree. In fact, about 10% of marriages in the world today are between first or second cousins and the practice was much more common in the past (and the not-so-distant past, to boot). Most people wouldn't even know if they were marrying, say, a fifth cousin and if they still live in the same general area that their family has been established in for a century or more, there are almost certainly many such cousins of that, or greater, remove that they know and interact with every day.
While I don't subscribe 100% to their math, I do know that some ancestral roots cross over. That is to say that somewhere in my past one or more of my ancestors may have made double contributions to the structure of my tree. I also found it somewhat meaningless when I considered that going exponentially 12 times you come up with 4096. There's no real secret to the math other than someone who sat and decided to use a number and then extrapolate it just 12 times. Why 12? Oh well. Be that as it may, it is still interesting to think of how many people in each of our pasts had to come together in order to bring just one person into existence.

Nevertheless, let someone rain on my parade. Thanks WBahn
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,783
Interesting to note how the bigger the code, the clumsier the performance. Just like it happens in computer software.


With more than 100 meters of DNA (328 feet), the tiny unassuming fork fern has the largest amount of DNA stored in the nucleus of any living organism on the planet. To put this into context, the human genome has 3.1 gigabase pairs, which would stretch out to around 2 meters (6.5 feet), while T. oblanceolata has 160.45. The fern has thereby taken the largest fern genome, the largest plant genome, and the largest genome world records.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,339
https://cnrnw.cnic.navy.mil/News/Ne...n-portland-for-rose-festival-fleet-week-2024/
U.S. NAVY SHIP TO ARRIVE IN PORTLAND FOR ROSE FESTIVAL FLEET WEEK 2024

USS Montgomery (LCS 8), along with vessels from the U.S. Coast Guard and the Royal Canadian Navy, will offer public tours and its crew will participate in annual festivities across the city to include the Grand Floral Parade, Royal Rosarian Honorary Knighting Ceremony, and community service activities.
The U.S. Navy ship will be open for public tours on June 6-9, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. To ensure ship tour completion by 4 p.m., lines will be monitored for approximate entrance start time. All tours will be complete by 4 p.m., so the tour line may be cut earlier in the afternoon, depending on line waiting times. It is recommended that those interested in public ship tours arrive early.


 
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WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,925
At William Tell '86, they had two Harriers do a demo and part of it was them going and playing hide and seek around the control tower. Their noses were almost right up against the tower glass on opposite sides (the distance from the nose to the building was roughly the same as the distance from the nose to the pilot). That was really cool to watch. Since the demos were closed to the public, they got to do a lot of things that, even then, they wouldn't have been allowed to do at a public airshow. The two week competition was capped off with, by far, the most impressive USAF Thunderbirds demo I ever saw.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,339
At William Tell '86, they had two Harriers do a demo and part of it was them going and playing hide and seek around the control tower. Their noses were almost right up against the tower glass on opposite sides (the distance from the nose to the building was roughly the same as the distance from the nose to the pilot). That was really cool to watch. Since the demos were closed to the public, they got to do a lot of things that, even then, they wouldn't have been allowed to do at a public airshow. The two week competition was capped off with, by far, the most impressive USAF Thunderbirds demo I ever saw.
Our Helo carrier LPH deployed (west coast testing) with the early, 'death trap' AV-8A Harriers. Never have I seen more potential for disaster in an instant while watching test flights.


 
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