VW - not so "Clean Diesel"

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,359
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-paris-engines-exclusive-idUSKBN12E11K
Independent testing in the wake of VW's exposure last year as a U.S. diesel emissions cheat has shed more light on the scale of the problem facing automakers.

Carmakers' smallest European engines, when driven at higher loads than current tests allow, far exceed legal emissions levels. Heat from the souped-up turbos generates diesel NOx up to 15 times over the limit; gasoline equivalents lose fuel-efficiency and spew fine particles and carbon monoxide.

"They might be doing OK in the current European test cycle, but in the real world they are not performing," said Pavan Potluri, an analyst with influential forecaster IHS Automotive.

"So there's actually a bit of 'upsizing' going on, particularly in diesel."
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Unfortunately that's not new info.

Or at least not new to me being it was known with US made vehicles a good 15- 20 years or more ago that the majority of vehicles while in normal driving conditions do not meet and never have met emission specs. :rolleyes:

It was a point of contention towards the true validity of the costs Vs real life gains behind Tier 2 rated emissions vehicles way back then. :oops:
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
Ok, VW had a cheat device in electronic control module but this new report claims they may have had additional software in the transmission to determine shift points - enviro-friendly mode if steering wheel remains essentially straight.
What's next? Automatic breaking? Autonomous driving? Wait, there are people championing items for "safety" and there are those championing items for eco friendly. How long before my 4 year old grand daughter get's her autonomous vehicle drivers license?

The politico's wanted the engineers to solve problems. They did. Now the politicos don't like the result.

Computer controlled drive train and engine were inevitable. But ... it created aftermarket jobs.
 

Thread Starter

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
What's next? Automatic breaking? Autonomous driving? Wait, there are people championing items for "safety" and there are those championing items for eco friendly.
I dunno. I'm just sharing my notes.

How long before my 4 year old grand daughter...
Likewise, I don't know anything about your granddaughter.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
18,125
I wonder if anyone is looking at all the other manufacturers. It could turn out to be one of those "everybody else is doing it" things. Has anyone been cleared as not using cheats?
 

Thread Starter

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
I wonder if anyone is looking at all the other manufacturers. It could turn out to be one of those "everybody else is doing it" things. Has anyone been cleared as not using cheats?
One has stepped forward to say they have skirted the rules (Mitsubishi).

The key is that all manufacturers EXCEPT VW/Audi were using urea solution injection to scavenge NOx on diesel vehicles - a market advantage for consumers - no effort and a perception that VW must be the technology leader.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
38,555
The key is that all manufacturers EXCEPT VW/Audi were using urea solution injection to scavenge NOx on diesel vehicles - a market advantage for consumers - no effort and a perception that VW must be the technology leader.
Yes, that's the crux of the outrage.
It's not the cheat so much as the manner of the cheat. All cheats aren't equal.
It's possible other manufacturers also cheat but none of them are advertising (to my knowledge) how their engines are meeting the rules with a simpler and cheaper design than everyone else, just to get a significant market advantage.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
I haven't seen anywhere that every manufacturer has been tested. I'm waiting for that real world driving test results. The net may catch more than they think.
 

Thread Starter

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
I haven't seen anywhere that every manufacturer has been tested. I'm waiting for that real world driving test results. The net may catch more than they think.
If any manufacturer was cheating AND installing urea injection systems, they are really stupid.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
If any manufacturer was cheating AND installing urea injection systems, they are really stupid.
Have there been "real world" driving tests similar to the VW "discovery"? None that I've seen. It would be a marketing feather in the cap of those manufacturers whose models actually passed an independent test.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I have long since lost the link but there was a study done by a major university about 15 years ago where they did a real world testing study on several major brand vehicles and although every one passed the emissions baseline tests before and after none of them came close to matching their emissions test numbers or compliance values in real life driving conditions 100% of the time.

Most didn't come close to even meeting specs 25% of the time in normal driving conditions and that was way back in Tier 2 standards times. :rolleyes:
 
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