On a personal note my 2013 VW Golf TDI recently became due for it's California smog test. Passed with no problem. Just hooked up the diagnostic port to the tester machine which read the emissions from the ECU and sent the results to the state. The tech and I had a good laugh. We were pretty sure that the VW engineers would make a cheat that would work. They're pretty good you know. See you next year.

 

What faster roll out? Telsa has announced production of 50,000 vehicles for 2015. Not enough to make any significant difference by any measure. Ford built 713,000 Model A's in 1928 (the first full production year) and more than double that number in next year. All without the internet hype or even TV for that matter. I'm underwhelmed.

 

What faster roll out? Telsa has announced production of 50,000 vehicles for 2015. Not enough to make any significant difference by any measure. Ford built 713,000 Model A's in 1928 (the first full production year) and more than double that number in next year. All without the internet hype or even TV for that matter. I'm underwhelmed.

But it's not you grandpa's model A.
Zoom, Zoom

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-audi-idUSKCN0XG2DN

 

It might not be grandpa's model A, but without a huge demand.....driven by price, the Tesla will remain a custom car with a custom price.

Litigation costs money. The risk is high.

Anyone know what AL "green" Gore drives? I doubt it's a green friendly vehicle.

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-qa-volkswagen-scandal-fix-20160421-story.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...code-words-said-to-complicate-emissions-probe

The probe, which was expected to wrap up by the end of April, has been slowed by the use of dozens of code words, including “acoustic software,” for the illicit technology Volkswagen used to turn off pollution controls when cars were on the road, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the investigation is confidential. The obfuscation along with partly insufficient and outdated computer systems made it difficult to find evidence concrete enough to hold individual employees accountable, they said.

 

I like this Q and A:

If I own one of these cars, do I just have to wait for the fix?

Yes. Basically the EPA and CARB say you can continue to drive your cars, don't worry about the emissions test. If you do take it into the emissions test anyway, it will pass.

So much for "protecting the environment." Your emitting too much NOx, but you can still drive the car. Don't forget to do the mandated emission tests, which you know you will pass and we know it's just a phony result, but, the government still want's the money for the test.

The government, CA and Federal, certainly has a lackadaisical attitude here. It's only been seven months or so, so I guess the government is working at warp speed ... compared to all other government reactions.

 

Looks like they are going for the buyback option in the US. Now we know why the deal took so long, that's a huge amount of cash.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-usa-idUSKCN0XH2CX

Volkswagen AG and U.S. officials have reached a framework deal under which the automaker would offer to buy back almost 500,000 diesel cars that used sophisticated software to evade U.S. emission rules, two people briefed on the matter said on Wednesday.

The German automaker is expected to tell a federal judge in San Francisco Thursday that it has agreed to offer to buy back up to 500,000 2.0-liter diesel vehicles sold in the United States, the people said.

 

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/04/volkswagen-makes-it-official-its-buying-back-500000-2-0l-diesels/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a28916/vw-tdi-emissions-settlement/

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0XI24G

U.S. Judge Charles Breyer said the settlement is expected to include a buyback offer for 482,000 2.0-liter vehicles and a possible fix if regulators agree on it, or the cancellation of an outstanding lease.

Two people briefed on the matter and several analysts say VW may have to spend more than $10 billion to comply with the U.S. agreement.

It's amazing we still don't know exactly who did what in this scam but a $10 billion payoff must be cheaper to VW than going to court in the US.

 

From everything I have heard in my parts to be honest most people could care less about what VW did to pass the tests.

If anything many feel a bit of satisfaction from them lying to and cheating the very government agencies who we all have way too many reasons to believe lie and cheat us every day in regards to the real values and validity of what they impose on us Vs it's costs to us.

They lied and cheated the bigger liars and cheaters in order to give us what we wanted which was durable reliable fun to drive fuel efficent vehicles for years and by the millions.

 

Don't you think it would have been better for them just to be honest? At least in this part of country people are royally upset with the company's over the top trickery and flimflam that's resulted in the loss of value in cars paid with real dollars. VW should have said the government agencies requirements were BS and spent time plus money to prove their case instead of being a part of this grand deception. Joining the liars and cheaters club really worked out for them didn't it.

Analyst Marc-Rene Tonn, at Warburg Research, estimated the direct financial impact on Volkswagen from the emissions scandal worldwide was $32.3bn.

 

Honesty integrity and truthful facts have very little place in the games that big government plays. Anyone who is even the least bit slightly informed about how things work knows that.

As far as how it hit their own company, well just looking at their last five years stock ranges apparently not that much. Although presently sitting at about half of what its peak was roughly a year ago comparing today price averages to what they were 3 - 5 years ago things are looking pretty normal and when compared to the top 5 other auto manufacturers in the same time frames so far they are coming out of this sitting pretty good!

 

Honesty integrity and truthful facts have very little place in the games that big government plays. Anyone who is even the least bit slightly informed about how things work knows that.

Exactly right. That's why VW (and other car manufacturers) should have told them to stick the rules where the sun doesn't shine. By playing the government lie game you become a cog in that machine and a low level street-walker to the master.

 

Well the tide might be turning. At the moment almost every state in the union has lawsuits against the EPA for their overstepping boundaries and trying to put rules in place that cannot be met and it's not going well fo the EPA.

Pick a topic and the odds are the EPA is getting sued over it. Clean air, water you name it. There's being environmentally and socially conscious and then there's trying to take control of everything by all means necessary and it's clear that the are after the second not the first.

VW could have played the game differently but as I see it they played it down and dirty just like the groups they going against play and by doing so brought to light the very real and generally not believed or talked about reality that to meet emission rules you have to sacrafice fuel economeny and drivabliity of which both are the primary driving desires behind the vast majority of people who own vehicles.

 

VW could have played the game differently but as I see it they played it down and dirty just like the groups they going against play and by doing so brought to light the very real and generally not believed or talked about reality that to meet emission rules you have to sacrafice fuel economeny and drivabliity of which both are the primary driving desires behind the vast majority of people who own vehicles.

VW got greedy, arrogant and dirty where it hurt for a company with a tradition of engineering solid solutions to problems.

 

VW took a risky gamble and lost. The cost is looking to be upwards of $30B. Any idea what the upside gain was?

I mean, if they had never been caught, how much did they stand to gain? It seems to me that installing the urea injection system into every cheater vehicle, while expensive, would not have been anywhere near $30B.

 

So you had a fanatic environmentalist commission a study based on a European report and confirmed the report.

Next the fanatical environmentalists demand action from their friendly compatriots at the EPA and CARB. Did they demand the vehicles be removed from service? No. In fact they said the vehicles could still be driven and "re-inspected" to comply with the paper rules until the issue is settled. How much NOx was released, damaging the environment, while the governments reacted to "solve" the problem.

VW would have suffered alot more if the government removed the vehicles from service.

Government inaction is on full display in Flint Michigan with the years of poison water.

[sarcasm] I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you. [/sarcasm]

What is going to happen when the vast majority of the vehicles on the road fail the emissions test under "actual" conditions? How many miles will the government require the inspectors drive to ensure compliance?

Maybe it's time for that Mercedes AA.

 

I think there was point were they really believed they could have magically low emissions, magically high performance and mileage without urea injection on the 2.0L models so they designed a car without the extra room and systems needed for one, tooled up to produce it and then saw the EPA specs were impossible to meet with that design during actual road tests like every other manufacturer of small diesel cars did and were too far in the design/ construction process to revamp. They (exactly who is still a mystery) decided to use their German engineering reputation as a cover for fakery with a complex system of smoke and mirrors that was brilliant. The discovery that it was a sham was mainly accidental because the original testers wanted to prove magically low emissions, magically high performance and mileage was possible by using the VW 2.0L design as one of the standards for their testing. In the end they were caught by being too good for real world physics during an experiment. Buyers were most likely DEFRAUDED in a criminal act causing bogus tax credits to be paid from the tax payers.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/horn-admits-vw-committed-criminal-acts-diesel-fix-to-take-2-years/

The fraud and cover-up in the rigging of VW diesel enginesto meet U.S. nitrogen oxide emissions standards were “criminal” acts, Volkswagen of America CEO Michael Horn admitted during some three hours of questioning by the House Energy and Commerce Committee’s Oversight and Investigations subcommittee.

 

It seems to me that installing the urea injection system into every cheater vehicle, while expensive, would not have been anywhere near $30B.

It wasn't (completely) about the cost of the tank and injector, it was about the drivers (car buyers) in Europe hate refilling their gas tank AND their AdBlue (urea) tank. VW created a very desirable niche in the automotive Diesel segment where there was no need to fill a urea tank. Diesel drivers preferred VW because there was no tank to monitor and refill so VW was viewed by drivers as the technologically superior product.

I don't know how much money they made by cheating (or thought they would make) but the penalty will likely make auto companies expand their use of the word "sustainability" beyond bio-based raw materials but also include sustainable business practices.

 

I don't see it as a having failed the latest compliance mandate but more smoke and mirrors of what exactly is the actual gains from the last standards to the newest one and how do both compare to the old unrestricted levels that vehicles had 40+ years ago.

I have yet to ever find any solid documentation that states all the typical emission levels of bad stuff as it would come from a stock engine that was made 40 years ago being ran on today's fuels.

What is the unregulated baseline we are coming to and what is the honest percentage of reductions from that baseline for each tier of emissions compliance that has and will be put into effect?

That is to say if tier 1 reduced emissions by 80% and tier 2 reduced it 80% again and tier three did it another 80$ from tire 2 what is the actual change from tier 3 to tier 4 if it is supposed to be 80% of tier 3 levels?

Lets see, Say the tier 0 engine had a baseline of 1000 PPM combined units of bad stuff and the change to tier one reduced that by 80% giving tier one engines a baseline of 200 PPM.

Then tier 2 reduces that another 80% giving us a baseline of 40 PPM or only 4% of the Tier 0 engine.

Now tier 3 puts the mandate at another 80% reduction from tier 2 putting the numbers at 8 PPM or .8% of tier 0.

Next tier 4 comes along demanding another 80% reduction putting the level at 1.6 PPM or a minute .016% of the tier 0 baseline.

Then holy hell VW comes along and give everyone the finger and tell the EPA to stuff it and cheat on the next tier 5 80% reduction based on the 1.6 PPM tier 4 level leaving them at 1.6 PPM Vs the required .32 PPM or .0032% of tier 0 baseline.

Sure the 80% reduction for each tier over its previous one sounds like a major thing but in reality when compared to the original baseline after tier 2 the actual changes going forward from there rapidly become immeasurably insignificant.

That's my argument on the whole emissions level thing. What is the actual reductions for each level when compared to the original nonemison base line using modern fuels in a older engine design? Cheating and not meeting an 80% change level sounds like a major thing but when it's actually 20% of 20% of 20% of 20% instead of 20% of 20% of 20% of 20% of 20% it's not a huge number. It's insignificantly tiny.