Are there people that should not have guns? Sure. Are there people that should not have a driver's license? Sure. Are there people that should not have kids? Sure.

Would it be nice if the movies presented an accurate and responsible and realistic portrayal of guns? Sure. It would also be nice if they presented an accurate and responsible and realistic portrayal of, well, anything. Since the latter isn't about to happen, the former certainly isn't. It's not just U.S. movies, either. Films from everywhere else are generally just as bad.

How many people have gotten injured and killed by trying to do some stupid stunt with a car or a bike that they saw in some movie, or on some TV show, or on some Youtube video?

 

wasn't that an angry mob that started it all by marching into closed community (a private property) after knocking down the gate?
if so i would not expect anything good from them and they would have no sympathy from me.

one can share thoughts, appeal to public in a different way, collect signatures, hold speeches, gather at public place and remain peaceful, without acting in a threating way and causing property damage.

 

wasn't that an angry mob that started it all by marching into closed community (a private property) after knocking down the gate?
if so i would not expect anything good from them and they would have no sympathy from me.

one can share thoughts, appeal to public in a different way, collect signatures, hold speeches, gather at public place and remain peaceful, without acting in a threating way and causing property damage.

That doesn't alter the fact that the law is the law, people are entitled under the law to use deadly force under certain circumstances, but a bunch of people - even if intimidating - walking down the street isn't that, hence the grand jury indicting the couple after seeing evidence.

That woman has her finger on the trigger too, that is a no-no, a totally inept and unsafe way to handle a firearm (My S&W model 27 is very sensitive, if cocked, the slightest pressure will fire it that's how it came from the factory too), she could have killed someone and if she had she'd be in a cell today all because of her own stupidity, she and her husband are a danger, they acted recklessly, should not have left the safety of their home if they felt truly threatened, by doing so they increased the risk of tragedy, listen:

They should have been punished for that not pardoned, anyone who has a gun in their home with the potential to use it for self defense had better read the local and state laws very very carefully, if they do not know EXACTLY what justifies shooting a person then they should not have a gun at home, pardoning these nutjobs sets a seriously bad example.

 

It's not just U.S. movies, either. Films from everywhere else are generally just as bad.

https://youtu.be/ZoYtwI_S2VI

https://youtu.be/UHpkT6NFGK4

Seems like a pretty global trend to me.

 

We are pretty good in the USA for gun fantasies.

The reality.

 

Seems like a pretty global trend to me.

Yes, but mainly because the US has been superb at exporting violence, much of it not make believe either.

 

Yes, but mainly because the US has been superb at exporting violence, much of it not make believe either.

I think you give the human species too much credit. Except for Americans, you seem pretty honest about us. Like the rest of the world was populated by trolls (the "small, colorful, perpetually-happy creatures who sing, dance, and hug all day" kind of trolls) and Americans are the Bergens who came along and stole their innocence. You've surely taken a World History course at some point? Huns? Nazis? Romans? Americans didn't invent violence. Humans are brutal, always have been, always will be.

 

 

I think you give the human species too much credit. Except for Americans, you seem pretty honest about us. Like the rest of the world was populated by trolls (the "small, colorful, perpetually-happy creatures who sing, dance, and hug all day" kind of trolls) and Americans are the Bergens who came along and stole their innocence. You've surely taken a World History course at some point? Huns? Nazis? Romans? Americans didn't invent violence. Humans are brutal, always have been, always will be.

I don't disagree with that conclusion, however one can measure violence to a degree and we have some large numbers in our records both at home and overseas. Our culture admires violence, we rain it down on others and we continually use it to entertain. Most of the guns used by Central American cartels are made here.

The nation has become hypocritical, condemning others around the world for their violence while all the while doing as they do yet on a larger scale, violence emanating from us is "good" it is "justified" it is "moral" but when perpetrated by others who do not share our strategic goals it is "evil" incarnate.

We reap what we sow and oh how we have sowed...



When all of this is normalized, explained away, is it any wonder that people are less and less critical of violence, will resort to it more and more readily.

 

I don't disagree with that conclusion, however one can measure violence to a degree and we have some large numbers in our records both at home and overseas. Our culture admires violence, we rain it down on others and we continually use it to entertain. Most of the guns used by Central American cartels are made here.

The nation has become hypocritical, condemning others around the world for their violence while all the while doing as they do yet on a larger scale, violence emanating from us is "good" it is "justified" it is "moral" but when perpetrated by others who do not share our strategic goals it is "evil" incarnate.

We reap what we sow and oh how we have sowed...

When all of this is normalized, explained away, is it any wonder that people are less and less critical of violence, will resort to it more and more readily.

Fair points, I don't disagree with any of that. But I again point out that it isn't a phenomenon unique to America. The "Us Vs. Them" thing is a big part of being human. Their shit stinks and ours doesn't; it's universal. What nation is full of people who are proudly "the bad guys?"

I have given this a lot of thought for years and come to the conclusion that we humans really only thrive in opposition to other humans. Conflict is what causes us to band together in the first place. Sure, banding together offers other benefits (trade, genetic diversity, division of labor, etc) but without a foe to oppose, all we do is exist; tribal, disorganized, we languish. Societies fall apart when they run out of things to oppose. Every great empire that has risen, has fallen. Why? Were they conquered by a greater force? I can't think of one that was. They conquer until there's nothing left to conquer and then fizzle out.

I think that our society is falling apart because we've run out of boogeymen, so now we are making boogeymen out of each other. We are bored. We are fizzling out. All of the contentious social issues that people get so worked up about today are weak in comparison to the conflict we really crave on a societal scale. Racial tensions, gender inequality, abortion, LGBT, trans, gun nuts, the 1%, left Vs. right, all this nonsense would be quickly dispensed with if we were attacked on our own soil. If WWIII doesn't come soon... well, I am afraid that America is forging headlong toward the point of no return.

I think your observations are accurate but you misidentify cause and effect.

 

Fair points, I don't disagree with any of that. But I again point out that it isn't a phenomenon unique to America. The "Us Vs. Them" thing is a big part of being human. Their shit stinks and ours doesn't; it's universal. What nation is full of people who are proudly "the bad guys?"

I have given this a lot of thought for years and come to the conclusion that we humans really only thrive in opposition to other humans. Conflict is what causes us to band together in the first place. Sure, banding together offers other benefits (trade, genetic diversity, division of labor, etc) but without a foe to oppose, all we do is exist; tribal, disorganized, we languish. Societies fall apart when they run out of things to oppose. Every great empire that has risen, has fallen. Why? Were they conquered by a greater force? I can't think of one that was. They conquer until there's nothing left to conquer and then fizzle out.

I think that our society is falling apart because we've run out of boogeymen, so now we are making boogeymen out of each other. We are bored. We are fizzling out. All of the contentious social issues that people get so worked up about today are weak in comparison to the conflict we really crave on a societal scale. Racial tensions, gender inequality, abortion, LGBT, trans, gun nuts, the 1%, left Vs. right, all this nonsense would be quickly dispensed with if we were attacked on our own soil. If WWIII doesn't come soon... well, I am afraid that America is forging headlong toward the point of no return.

I think your observations are accurate but you misidentify cause and effect.

You may be right, after all Rome was once a huge and dominant force that collapsed inwardly. I'm not saying "Americans" are themselves unique in some way, but do think that the situation is pretty one-off, historically no nation has ever had as much control and influence over others as the US has had.

The idea of the "boogeymen" is spot on, we in the US have had a succession of them and the latest one is called "Chayna". That nation's actions are only ever seen as hostile, a threat, a sinister force, we are all being told recently about that threat, it is not permitted, not sane to see it any other way than as a threat to us.

The fact that China sees the US as a threat and has done for decades, is never mentioned, that fact that the US almost went to nuclear war over Cuba aligning with the USSR is conveniently put aside, not to be compared to the "Taiwan question", we can, we are entitled to, play in China's backyard but nobody can play in ours.

This mentality is it seems, unique to the US, this is where "we" are different, no other nation portrays itself as entitled to manipulate others, as we do, to set the terms and agenda of geopolitics as we do and because the US news and press are so insular, we never see other perspectives, the TV news here is almost entirely domestic save for a few token stories that help to reinforce the view that we are right (e.g. the reporting on Ukraine) when we are wrong there's no story, it's just not reported (e.g. our current role in Yemen).

So I agree that we are starting to fragment internally but I think decades of foreign policy has resulted in a blame culture, we must and will blame someone, something else, for our problems, we - the good - are under threat even from the guy down the road, reminds me of

 

The "Us Vs. Them" thing is a big part of being human.

It comes down to a natural Animal evolutionary trait that I believe Humans will never be able to shake, Namely Tribalism.
It exists in other beings in the animal world, Our closest relatives, the Apes, are typical examples. Who will slaughter another group, without compunction, when feeling threatened.

 

The "gun went off on its own" claim didn't work for her.

Newly-released court documents claim Decker told detectives she found the gun while searching for potato chips in a cupboard. She told them her husband was sitting on the floor when the gun went off on its own while she was holding it, according to the court documents.

 

@ApacheKid I think we are in agreement (or close enough) on the larger issue and I'm glad you brought this up:

because the US news and press are so insular, we never see other perspectives, the TV news here is almost entirely domestic save for a few token stories that help to reinforce the view that we are right (e.g. the reporting on Ukraine) when we are wrong there's no story, it's just not reported (e.g. our current role in Yemen).

This can distort views in more ways than the one you are focused on. Yes, we don't get much feedback on the sentiments of the governments, media, or general populations in other countries unless we go out of our way to do so. If we stand in line to be spoon fed information from the usual suspects (and the vast majority of us do, unfortunately) then we will consume the narrative that you refer to. But just because we don't see the narrative being spoon fed to folks in China, Cuba, etc., doesn't mean there isn't one.

What do you think plays on TV in Russia?
"We were very naughty today, blew up another building in Ukraine. We totally don't have any right to be here, but damn it's fun!"

What fact-based reporting could have swayed opinions in favor of Hitler?

I thought that the availability of information these days would preclude propaganda and thought control being effective. I was very wrong. "The war for your mind" rages hotter than ever. I can't quite wrap my mind around how, so I practice abstinence to the extent it is possible.

I'm not saying "Americans" are themselves unique in some way, but do think that the situation is pretty one-off, historically no nation has ever had as much control and influence over others as the US has had.
[...]
This mentality is it seems, unique to the US, this is where "we" are different, no other nation portrays itself as entitled to manipulate others, as we do, to set the terms and agenda of geopolitics as we do

what about that one time Britain owned India? Or when Spain manifest destiny over several continents simultaneously? Or when (right now) Russia tried a hostile takeover of Ukraine? Historically speaking, America's current meddling shenanigans are pretty tame. I mean hell, we aren't even claiming ownership of other nations at the moment.

In summary, I do agree with you, but I think that to assert that America is...
-the only nation guilty of it
-the nation most guilty of it
-guilty of it in a way that is unique
-guilty of it in any way that is historically significant
... or any combination of those, is naive. Also I think that the association between this phenomenon and the "gun nuts" which originally started the discussion, requires quite a bit more elaboration before it can stand on its own (it kinda got glossed over).

 

what about that one time Britain owned India?

Actually India was just a small part, At it's height, The British Empire spanned a quarter of the Earths land area which included 460 Million people.

 

Everyone including the gun grabbers know this is gun theater in the USA. We are not going to disarm and control 300 million people with 400 million guns. The fed's can't do it and the local police won't do it. We can't even stop a small number of people from injecting drugs in public that turns them into flesh rotting Zombies.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opin...0230424-lhnp5k2rznd3hjtgndtu42rusu-story.html

These days, drug use in New York’s Washington Square Park is very much out in the open. On the park benches, you can see people smoking, injecting themselves and their bench mates and even cooking methamphetamine. On a recent Sunday morning, they did so undisturbed.

But the big shocker for an infrequent visitor is something different. A few of the people present in the park have red and black wounds on their skin. In at least one case this past weekend, parts of human tendons appeared to be exposed.

Most likely, the gruesome sight is a consequence of seeing the effects of someone using the veterinary tranquilizer xylazine, colloquially tranq. Commonly mixed with the synthetic opioid fentanyl and obtained with relative ease, xylazine — pronounced “ZY-la-zeen” — is sometimes called the “zombie drug” in acknowledgment of its flesh-eating properties.

It’s not an exaggeration to say that the jarring sight of the horrific physical effects on humans of this horse tranquilizer recall the fictional wounds visible on characters in the dystopian TV show “The Last of Us.”

The rise of Xylazine is a result of the crackdown of Fentynal. The rise of Fentynal was a result of a crackdown on heroin. We always end up with something worse it seems. We can't ban our way out of human behaviors in a free and open society. I don't know the solution but bans have rarely worked in America's version of decentralized diverse government.

 

Everyone including the gun grabbers ....

MOD NOTE:
Let's try to steer clear of this line of discussion. It goes off the rails too fast. Discussing human behavior is slippery enough as it is.

 

And, here we go again.
https://variety.com/2024/biz/news/alec-baldwin-manslaughter-rust-shooting-again-1235875855/
Alec Baldwin Indicted on Manslaughter Charge in ‘Rust’ Shooting

Two special prosecutors, Kari Morrissey and Jason Lewis, sent the gun for further forensic testing last summer. Their experts, Lucien and Michael Haag, reconstructed the gun — which had been broken during FBI testing — and concluded that it could only have been fired by a pull of the trigger.

“This fatal incident was the consequence of the hammer being manually retracted to its fully rearward and cocked position followed, at some point, by the pull or rearward depression of the trigger,” the report concluded. “Although Alec Baldwin repeatedly denies pulling the trigger, given the tests, findings and observations reported here, the trigger had to be pulled or depressed sufficiently to release the fully cocked or retracted hammer of the evidence revolver.”
...
The film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, is set to go on trial on Feb. 21 on charges of involuntary manslaughter and tampering with evidence. Gutierrez Reed mistakenly loaded a live bullet into Baldwin’s gun, which was supposed to contain only dummies. It remains unclear how live rounds became mixed in with dummy rounds on the set.

 

And, here we go again.

To me it is really where does the Buck really stop?
Multiple sources?
Or a "Comedy" of errors?

 

To me it is really where does the Buck really stop?
Multiple sources?
Or a "Comedy" of errors?

Pulling the trigger (heck, touching the trigger) while pointing at somebody, ain't funny.