Hello everyone here, greetings for all
Well, I have this UPS battery charger board, " this is one is broken and I'm working on fix, but I just show here for understanding" normally it's installed in UPS machine, 20kva capacity, and 3.5A charging capacity
What I need do, is to take this board outside the UPS and charge the batteries
It takes DC in plus/minus which is I think it's the DC bus in UPS
and output DC plus/minus for batteries terminals
I need power by electric cable from 220v ac, 50 Hz,
What I know is that I need approximately 360v dc at input and that's all
What are your ideas for get 360v dc to power this charger?, hopefully with a range of 300-360v
Regards

btw:
hello my friends , here is edit to the post for more clarification for what i need



ive tried to put as much details as i can so you can have better view and understanding for the board, and you can see above the on/off socket, and charger detect socket,
normally these two sockets are connected to another board in the UPS , for turning on and off the battery charger and for detecting the batteries voltage " 16 battery in series " " 16*12v = 192v "

what i want to do is to power on that board without connecting to the other board in UPS

here is more information :




here also :



how can i power this board?
regards

 

I need power by electric cable from 220v ac, 50 Hz,
What I know is that I need approximately 360v dc at input and that's all

360VDC ? ? ? Unlike any UPS I've ever dealt with. ALL mine have a 12V battery inside them. They sit on my desk tops. When power drops out the UPS Board switches to delivering the needed AC. In my case it's 120VAC. In your case 240VAC (or as some people refer to these voltages as 110 and 220 volts AC).

Here's what I know, which might not apply to your system if it truly needs 360VDC: Mains power (110 or 220) the UPS charges and keeps charged a 12 volt battery. When power fails or is interrupted the UPS almost instantaneously switches to backup battery power inverting 12 volts DC into (in my case) 120 volts AC and supports the computer and anything else I have plugged into the UPS.

 

Continuing to look at the pictures and your post - I'm trying to understand what it is you want to do. Fix the UPS and use it as a UPS? Or turn it into a battery charger (not a part of a UPS)?

 

OK, the clue here is that statement: "installed in UPS machine, 20kva capacity, and 3.5A charging capacity."
That is not a UPS box that most of us are familiar with. IT IS a much larger system.
That circuit board is much smaller than any UPS system board I have seen. It appears to be a portion of a battery charging system for a much larger UPS system.
In addition, charging a larger battery bank, which I have dealt with at a previous job, includes the hazard of massive short circuit currents and some DC voltage shocks.
So the very first suggestion is to understand the system you are working with.
To provide any sensible technical advice we will need to know a lot more about what is actually the whole system. And so will the thread starter need to know.

 

Continuing to look at the pictures and your post - I'm trying to understand what it is you want to do. Fix the UPS and use it as a UPS? Or turn it into a battery charger (not a part of a UPS)?

Turn it into battery charger

 

OK, the clue here is that statement: "installed in UPS machine, 20kva capacity, and 3.5A charging capacity."
That is not a UPS box that most of us are familiar with. IT IS a much larger system.
That circuit board is much smaller than any UPS system board I have seen. It appears to be a portion of a battery charging system for a much larger UPS system.
In addition, charging a larger battery bank, which I have dealt with at a previous job, includes the hazard of massive short circuit currents and some DC voltage shocks.
So the very first suggestion is to understand the system you are working with.
To provide any sensible technical advice we will need to know a lot more about what is actually the whole system. And so will the thread starter need to know.

Yes it's big UPS machine, have 32 battery, each 16 is series and both are parallel together
That board charge 16 battery bank
The battaries can be 7 AH or 9 ah, lead acid battery
I need turn this into battery charger, but outside the UPS
Any ideas how this can be done?

 

360VDC ? ? ? Unlike any UPS I've ever dealt with. ALL mine have a 12V battery inside them. They sit on my desk tops. When power drops out the UPS Board switches to delivering the needed AC. In my case it's 120VAC. In your case 240VAC (or as some people refer to these voltages as 110 and 220 volts AC).

Here's what I know, which might not apply to your system if it truly needs 360VDC: Mains power (110 or 220) the UPS charges and keeps charged a 12 volt battery. When power fails or is interrupted the UPS almost instantaneously switches to backup battery power inverting 12 volts DC into (in my case) 120 volts AC and supports the computer and anything else I have plugged into the UPS.

This is 20kva machine, big one with 32 battery bank, each 16 battery connected together in series and both parallel together

 

By the way, this board capable to charge 16 battaries or 20 in series with charging voltage of 20*13.7 = 274v dc
And charging current of 0.7A or 0.9A as of 10% of battery capacity
And up to 3.5Ampere
Any simple idea for get a 360v dc at input terminals of this board?
Or a DC dc converter is a must for this purpose?
For example Like this?

 

Any simple idea for get a 360v dc at input terminals of this board?

Again I ask - Why 360VDC? Rectifying and filtering 240VAC becomes 339.36VDC (minus diode forward voltage drops).

This is 20kva machine, big one with 32 battery bank, each 16 battery connected together in series and both parallel together

The battaries can be 7 AH or 9 ah, lead acid battery

So 32 batteries (16 & 16 in series parallel) at 12V nominal is 192V. Assuming 9AH capacity of each series string of 16 paralleled with another series string of 16 is 18AH.

So call it a single battery of 192V nominal @ 18AH. DIRECT CURRENT. What are you going to do with that high (and dangerous as heck) voltage? What's your load? How long does it need to be sustained? Is 18 hours of drain at 1 amp enough? Or 1 hour of drain at 18 amps enough? Maybe 36 amps drawn for 30 minutes?

Are we talking about a real project? A serious project? And what about cabling? How long are the cable runs? How many amps are you going to draw at any one moment?

And I'm a novice with these questions.

 

OK, a message for the TS: I used to be the engineer at a company that built and installed BIG battery banks for lighting large arrays of 1000 watt photo floodlights for making video and film recordings of crash tests. double parallel strings of 120 amp hour heavy duty batteries. to provide 130+ volts at no load, and 28,000 watts for almost two minutes for the crash video.

To charge the batteries we used a 12 volt charger for each pair, because charging in series DOES NOT WORK RELIABLY. It will sort of charge but some of the batteries fail.
So you can do that and try charging all of those 7 amp hour batteries in series, Many long years ago a company near ours scrapped an old mainframe computer that had a similar setup. They also had over a hundred of those nice gell-cell batteries that would not take a charge or hold a charge. Is this UPS scheme for an older mainframe computer in a bright blue rack cabinet??

Series charging requires a battery management system.

 

OK, a message for the TS: I used to be the engineer at a company that built and installed BIG battery banks for lighting large arrays of 1000 watt photo floodlights for making video and film recordings of crash tests. double parallel strings of 120 amp hour heavy duty batteries. to provide 130+ volts at no load, and 28,000 watts for almost two minutes for the crash video.

To charge the batteries we used a 12 volt charger for each pair, because charging in series DOES NOT WORK RELIABLY. It will sort of charge but some of the batteries fail.
So you can do that and try charging all of those 7 amp hour batteries in series, Many long years ago a company near ours scrapped an old mainframe computer that had a similar setup. They also had over a hundred of those nice gell-cell batteries that would not take a charge or hold a charge. Is this UPS scheme for an older mainframe computer in a bright blue rack cabinet??

Series charging requires a battery management system.

Ok

 

So you can do that and try charging all of those 7 amp hour batteries in series

How charging batteries in series with 12v?, as the one battery is 12v already?
What I know that the charging voltage should be higher than the batteries voltage

 

What I need do, is to take this board outside the UPS and charge the batteries

What else is inside this UPS besides that board and batteries?
How is the UPS powered?
How do you know the board requires 360 vdc?
Can you post a link to this UPS?

 

How charging batteries in series with 12v?, as the one battery is 12v already?
What I know that the charging voltage should be higher than the batteries voltage

EACH battery gets its own ISOLATED 12 volt charge circuit. Then each charger can also monitor the battery and assure that it is healthy. So it would require 16 chargers, BUT they could be rather simple.

 

Update didn't really help any.
I need answers to my questions in post #13.

 

Charging batteries in series can produce unexpected results if they are not all exactly the same. Sometimes it can work for a while. Sort of.

 

What else is inside this UPS besides that board and batteries?
How is the UPS powered?
How do you know the board requires 360 vdc?
Can you post a link to this UPS?

Charging batteries in series can produce unexpected results if they are not all exactly the same. Sometimes it can work for a while. Sort of.

They are the same

 

What else is inside this UPS besides that board and batteries?
How is the UPS powered?
How do you know the board requires 360 vdc?
Can you post a link to this UPS?

Hello my friend
Here are my trial answering your questions
Inside the UPS are the boards for let machine functioning, they are control board, power supply board, 3 pfc board at each phase, 3 inverter boards for each phase, two charging boards " one of them that I've showed in my post"
A UPS like any UPS, but this one is 3 PHASE input and 3 phase output, and when electricity off, it take the power from batteries for power the load
2 - how do I know the 360v?
It's in any UPS should be bus voltage which is around this number according to our experience
3 - link to this UPS?
Okay, here is photo of one I'm working on
And here is link from online

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EJaOORW

I hope this help
All what I need is to power the charger board outside the UPS for charging the batteries purpuse only
Same function as it is in UPS but without the UPS control

 

What board inside the UPS supplies this 360 volts for the charging board?

 

What board inside the UPS supplies this 360 volts for the charging board?

The pfc board or in other words the rectifier board
Block diagram similar to this
dc bus goes to dc-dc converter " battery charger board", then to battery bank