unsure how to drive a 320V DC motor for lathe

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
So today I hooked everything up as planned, and ran the system. I left the flywheel on the motor, otherwise it had no load. The motor would not start until I had the software running, and the software would not let me start until I plugged in the EKG system. I left the treadmill elevation motor disconnected with no problems.
The console has buttons for "motor start","motor stop", "increase speed", and "decrease speed". Each momentary press of the increase or decrease buttons changes the treadmill speed by .1mph.
The motor is nearly silent, except when changing speed. I compiled a graph of the indicated treadmill speed vs. the rpms obtained from a temporarily installed digital tach. I ran it for an hour at the highest rpm that I am likely to need for this application, and there was essentially no heating of the motor. Of course there was no load.
"motor start" and "motor stop" seem to use programmed gradual acceleration and deceleration. The "emergency stop" button used magnetic braking and stopped it almost instantly. Since there was nobody hooked up to the EKG leads, it would give regular alarms indicating that the patient was dead.
I suppose the next step is to study the schematics (as best I can understand them), and tap into the serial connection between the computer and the drive system box, and see if I can figure out what is going on between them. There is also a service port on the drive system box. I suspect that there are manual speed settings there somewhere.
View attachment 148594

What I think I see in the photo is a separate box containing the motor driver circuit. I think that I don't see many wires from that enclosed box to the other assembly. But they could also be multi-conductor cables and I could be quite totally wrong. But if there are only a few control wires to the motor drive control then separating it from the rest of the system may not be difficult.
 

Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
What I think I see in the photo is a separate box containing the motor driver circuit. I think that I don't see many wires from that enclosed box to the other assembly. But they could also be multi-conductor cables and I could be quite totally wrong. But if there are only a few control wires to the motor drive control then separating it from the rest of the system may not be difficult.
there is a serial cable between the two control boxes. From what I am able to understand at this point, the console sends, via another serial cable,. voltage to the main controller box, which makes it ready to receive start/stop/increase speed/ and decrease speed commands. Those commands come from momentary switches on the console. Probably in the form of short pulses. Just a theory am working on.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
there is a serial cable between the two control boxes. From what I am able to understand at this point, the console sends, via another serial cable,. voltage to the main controller box, which makes it ready to receive start/stop/increase speed/ and decrease speed commands. Those commands come from momentary switches on the console. Probably in the form of short pulses. Just a theory am working on.

OK on the serial cable. That makes it more complex than I had hoped. Are you able to post a scan of the controls input section of the driver package? And if there is any labeling of the connections inside that enclosure that has the connections to the motor, it might be useful. And it is possible that there are multiple circuit boards inside that box, that might be really handy. Many times power and logic are done separately so as to make production cheaper. Other times everything is put on one board to keep assembly labor cheaper. It seems to depend on the size of the production run.
 

Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
So here are some images of the boards:
The overall system:
electric overall.jpg
The big box is the system controller, the little box is the motor controller. Red White and Black from the motor controller go to the motor. The hall effect wires from the motor attach via the grey cable to to top left the system box.
Here is the I/O panel of the system controller:
io panel.jpg
The RS-232 cable connects to the main console.
I hope these first images are somewhat helpful.
T
 

Attachments

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
So here are some images of the boards:
The overall system:
View attachment 149298
The big box is the system controller, the little box is the motor controller. Red White and Black from the motor controller go to the motor. The hall effect wires from the motor attach via the grey cable to to top left the system box.
Here is the I/O panel of the system controller:
View attachment 149300
The RS-232 cable connects to the main console.
I hope these first images are somewhat helpful.
T
OK, and thanks for showing us. This is a seriously complex system that much is clear indeed. BUT it certainly looks like the motor driver box has both a driver board and a logic control board. This means that if it is possible to discover how to talk to the logic potion the rest would not be required. So the next step would be to locate the circuit drawings of the boards in the driver box, and then see if any of the control connections have names. If they do, then it may move rapidly towards answers, if not, more examination would be needed.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
I find the portion of the circuit on that page interesting. If the rest of the system is covered in that kind of detail then it should just be a matter of finding the actual connections described in the drawings. The circuit might have all of the details that the project needs! So are there pages like that covering the rest of the motor drive package? And do the connectors on the actual circuit boards have markings that match the drawings?
What is needed is the interface of the control command decoding hardware part with the motor driving part. The best would be if they are separate circuit boards, but it may not work that it is. Picture of the circuits in the book will help even more than pictures of the circuit boards, at least at this point. If it is possible to locate the section with the individual control signals, such as speed and direction, along with the run/stop commands. the job will be nearly done.
 
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Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
I find the portion of the circuit on that page interesting. If the rest of the system is covered in that kind of detail then it should just be a matter of finding the actual connections described in the drawings. The circuit might have all of the details that the project needs! So are there pages like that covering the rest of the motor drive package? And do the connectors on the actual circuit boards have markings that match the drawings?
The whole service package is at: http://www.medteh.info/_fr/93/T2000-field-ser.pdf
It seems pretty comprehensive, but about 20% beyond my skill level. There is another package for the console.
Right now my focus is to see if I can figure out how to run it from the service port, without the console.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,702
If the motor power and the hall sensors both go back to the single (top) board, there is a good chance you may get the single board operative.
Max.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
I will see what I can find on that link that you posted for the service package. So far everything is encouraging, like the project is headed inn the right direction.
 

Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
If the motor power and the hall sensors both go back to the single (top) board, there is a good chance you may get the single board operative.
Max.
I was going to send you a clearer diagram last night, but I got distracted. The Hall effect
If the motor power and the hall sensors both go back to the single (top) board, there is a good chance you may get the single board operative.
Max.
Here is a sketch of the wiring between modules. I hope it is correct;
wiring.jpg
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,702
I was going to send you a clearer diagram last night, but I got distracted. The Hall effect
Here is a sketch of the wiring between modules. I hope it is correct;
OK, so it appears the hall's go back to the logic board, so it is going to make it virtually impossible to separate them, I was originally thinking that if they went back to the power board, there may have been a chance of just using the motor board.
Max.
 

Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
OK, so it appears the hall's go back to the logic board, so it is going to make it virtually impossible to separate them, I was originally thinking that if they went back to the power board, there may have been a chance of just using the motor board.
Max.
I am not really concerned that the three main boards need to stay together. The issue is with the console. I could stick the motor in the lathe tomorrow, and be working. Except that each time, I would be required to wait for the computer to boot and go through the self tests, log in to the computer, log in to the GE software, select a patient, select a new test profile, push the treadmill "start" button, then increase rpms to the selected rate. Then, the whole time the system is running, the EKG system is giving alarms.
The treadmill controls on the console are a series of buttons, instead of being part of the windows software. The GE software seems to only provide the treadmill motor with a "permission to power up" signal, and feedback from the treadmill on current speed and elevation.
So I am thinking about how to replicate the go signal from the console, and the possibility of replicating the momentary push buttons for the motor controls. Or accessing those functions from the service port of the main board.
I bet if I can get an oscilloscope and tie into the serial cable between the console and the main board, it will turn out to be DC line voltage to energize the system, and pulse signals for the motor controls.
But that is mostly conjecture. A significant portion of the service diagrams remain more or less hieroglyphics to me.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
What it looks like to me is that the control information gets to the logic board via the serial cable, and that motor power gets to the motor drive board via the orange-black-black set of wires. That may be AC or DC, I can't tell from here. But it is not clear where exactly the cable from the console goes to. But unless I am missing something all of the motor control is via the serial cable going to the logic board. So an examination of what that connects to in the logic board may provide a clue as to how it talks and possibly what it says. I see a big black cable crossing the upper right corner of the motor board and I am wondering what that really is. Also, what voltages are on those three motor power wires? AC, or DC, and what sort of voltages between them?
 

Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
What it looks like to me is that the control information gets to the logic board via the serial cable, and that motor power gets to the motor drive board via the orange-black-black set of wires. That may be AC or DC, I can't tell from here. But it is not clear where exactly the cable from the console goes to. But unless I am missing something all of the motor control is via the serial cable going to the logic board. So an examination of what that connects to in the logic board may provide a clue as to how it talks and possibly what it says. I see a big black cable crossing the upper right corner of the motor board and I am wondering what that really is. Also, what voltages are on those three motor power wires? AC, or DC, and what sort of voltages between them?
The big black cable is the serial cable between the logic board and the main control board. I will try to get some voltages today.
 

Thread Starter

toadboy65

Joined Mar 16, 2018
23
The Orange Black and Black wires from the main control board to the motor controller are 220V AC, and come on as soon at the power switch to the main controller is switched on. This is independent of anything going on with the main console.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,600
I will see what I can find on that link that you posted for the service package. So far everything is encouraging, like the project is headed inn the right direction.
OK, I followed that link and there certainly is a whole lot of information in that manual. Good news is that it looks like the motor speed command is an analog voltage, 0 to 10.36 volts or something like that. The really hard and challenging part will be locating on the hardware the points that we see on the circuit diagram. But stop, start, and speed are all spelled out fairly well, along with the cautions about ground connections.
One thing mentioned but I did not see it is an isolation transformer.
But between the descriptions of exactly how each portion works, located in section 4 and the detailed connection drawings in section 6 it should be possible to find what is needed.
So the whole thing is quite encouraging.
 
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