Tutoring Students

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,978
So right. The school my daughter sends her children is like that. The recent science fair only awarded participation ribbons. I thought her daughters should have at least have won something, but then, I am completely unbiased. Her oldest daughter did comment on the fact that the "project" next to hers didn't even have a title and got the same recognition. Not surprisingly, it is in Minnesota.

@GopherT: As for Lake Wobegon and Garrison Keillor, I survived there for 17 years. Great place, if the weather doesn't get to you. I wasn't strong enough.

John
When I was in junior high I was on a drill team that went to national competition. We were one of eight drill teams in the entire country that had earned the right to compete at that level. At the awards ceremony every category of award started with the announcement of the eighth place finisher. No award was given out except to the top three teams in each category. Sure, none of us wanted to be eighth, but we all understood that the price of admission to the dance was that someone WAS going to come in last and that that someone might be us. There were also individual competitions (written exam and mile run) and each team got the full results, with names, of how each of the 128 participants ranked. That was in the 1980 time frame. Skip forward nearly 20 years to 1998 and now I am the sponsor and trainer of a team that went to national competition. At the awards ceremony this time the five teams that didn't place in the top three were always called up for each category to get their participation award, in no particular order, no one found out where they ranked in the individual categories, and teams only found out where they ranked in the team events (not how any of the other teams -- other than the top three -- ranked). I talked to a lot of the team members from many of the teams and every one I spoke with felt cheated by this. To a person they felt that they had earned the right to be recognized for their specific accomplishments and that they were more than willing to accept being recognized at being last among an elite group. Our team was a prime example -- the newest member on any of the other seven teams had been a member of their team for longer than our team had been in existence. Many of the teams were very competitive and had people that had been trying to get on the team for several years and then had competed at national with the team for several years. Our team had been cobbled together one week prior to the regional competition for the sole purpose of making sure that our state had a team present (the team that was supposed to go fell apart -- our region has never been a contender in this arena). Those kids busted their butts that week and they not only represented the state with honor, they actually won! So now they get to go to national with less than two months together as a team and their big goal is to just not come in last -- which they accomplished by coming in seventh, and they were VERY proud of that achievement (and, to my mind, rightfully so). They WANTED their name announced as the seventh place finisher, and not as just one of five "participants" -- and they had been perfectly willing to accept the risk (in fact, had fully expected) that their name would be called as the eighth place finisher. But, Nooooo, that might be "injurious to their self-esteem".
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
Well, the place went down hill after you and I left.
Exactly. My daughter keeps reminding me that it is not as nice as it was. The weather is just as miserable, though. Her husband does programming for various mobile devices. It doesn't matter where he is physically, so I am lobbying for them (mom, pop, +4) to come to Ohio. At least, our FB teams don't suck.

John
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
@WBahn, I agree. What is so right about stratifying athletic teams and not allowing academic or other teams the same challenge? In my day, class grades or ranks were posted. I don't recall anyone decompensating over over it.

John
 

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
Exactly. My daughter keeps reminding me that it is not as nice as it was. The weather is just as miserable, though. Her husband does programming for various mobile devices. It doesn't matter where he is physically, so I am lobbying for them (mom, pop, +4) to come to Ohio. At least, our FB teams don't suck.

John
My brothers say the same, yet nobody leaves.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,978
One of my heroes, Thomas Sowell, wrote a pertinent column today.
Definitely agree. What would ANY of these schools say if someone proposed awarding athletic scholarships according to that same criteria, namely taking into account the opportunities available to the student athlete where they came from?

But this notion that charter schools do well only (or even primarily) because they "cherry-pick" students has been debunked time and time again. Many catholic private schools serve poor neighborhoods and will take anyone that applies, using a straight lottery if space requires limits, and their students almost invariable far exceed the performance of their peers in the same neighborhood. In Colorado Springs there is a LOT of homeschooling and, after we got kicked off the Academy following 9/11, my CAP squadron was taken in by a church that ran a part-time school tailored to home-schoolers, so I got to see what they were doing first hand. Their tuition was $1600/year (at a time when the average cost/pupil in the public schools was over $6000/year) and they had really basic equipment. For instance, their science classes used Coleman camp stoves instead of Bunsen burners. Yet the kids learned very successfully -- in one year alone they had three students (out of about a dozen in the class) that received appointments to the Air Force Academy and, IIRC, all of them graduated with honors. Some of the kids were very lackluster in their achievement in public school before being pulled out and being homeschooled.

The big factor, as Sowell noted, is that kids in charter schools tend to be from families that have chosen to make their kids' education a priority.

My daughter was in a charter school (and we wish she still were, but we decided that spending two years in Taiwan would be better for her even at the risk of not being able to get back into the charter school) and they absolutely did not "cherry pick" in any way, shape, or form. When you applied you went onto one of three waitlists -- those for kids that had siblings currently attending the school, those that lived in the county, and all others (we were on the last list since we were out-of-county). You went on the list in the order you applied. The selection process was simple. As seats opened in a given grade they took students off the first list, in order, then off the second list, in order, and then off the third, in order. Because we were on the third list, we made sure to apply while our daughter was in Pre-K since not nearly as many parents apply at that level. It paid off and our daughter thrived there. When she comes back it will be very iffy if we can get her back in because she has to go back through the same process and even being a former student that excelled does not give her any advantage in getting admission.
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
I have mixed emotions on charter schools. I think a lot depends on the quality of the public education in your area.
Be that as it may, they are selective because the parents are looking for something better.
But strangely enough national averages don't prove them any better than public schools. So I guess you need to be careful with them to.
My kids went a private school. I think the education was ok, but they didn't learn much about the real world.
Teaching methods:
This forum is a good example. some people respond to the teaser method and ask more questions, etc. Others just disappear. I always wonder how the ones that disappeared came out. Did they just give up or find another place where the got better info for them.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,234
...but they didn't learn much about the real world.
I cannot even begin to comprehend what you mean. The "real world" has different meanings for each of us. Should they venture into a ghetto? A war zone? Be shown porn videos in class? These are all aspects of the "real world".

Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
A ghetto - probably. Only one in a war zone- he wasn't fond of it. I think they all discovered porn videos during their school years.:D
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
Others just disappear. I always wonder how the ones that disappeared came out. Did they just give up or find another place where the got better info for them.
I suspect they got the fix they needed elsewhere.

I have seen some homework being cross posted here and at ETO.

I will agree with the consensus that not everyone learns the material alike. There have been times where members here directed the TS to an appropriate section of the eBooks on this site for further reading.

Getting any answer from TSs is like pulling teeth at times. Apparently with only three hours from start to second TS post and none for over 24 hours, the learning has ended without further points germane to the original posting.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,978
.
Teaching methods:
This forum is a good example. some people respond to the teaser method and ask more questions, etc. Others just disappear. I always wonder how the ones that disappeared came out. Did they just give up or find another place where the got better info for them.
I suspect the ones that disappear fall into several buckets, too. It's hard to tell since they, well, just disappear, but sometimes you get some hints either from what they posted before they left or from posts found on other forums. I suspect a large fraction of them post the homework expecting someone to work it for them and, when that doesn't happen, they just leave -- didn't get what they wanted and so didn't stick around. I see the same thing with Help Sessions.
 
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