Turn Indicator Circuit HELP PLEASE!

Discussion in 'Automotive Electronics' started by jonmarion, May 8, 2017.

  1. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    Ok I am building a Factory Five MK4 Roadster for a private individual and its the base kit so there for we used a Donor Car for certain parts, our donor car is a 2001 Mustang SVT Cobra. Ok here is my on going dilemma or I should say nightmare, instead of trying to figure out the mustang flasher circuit we opted to make my own harness or circuit both I guess. Anyway long story short I have taken apart and have rebuilt the part of the harness were it all meets at the column, I have 4 wires (RR,RF,LR,LF), a three post flasher (34), and four diodes (4x1N4001), ok so I have everything working properly but here is the kicker the flasher will not stop clicking. Oh yeah the column js a simple Russ Thompson column it has 6 wires two for the high beam switch (which works great) and a black/white w/green then Black/White (Left Turn), DG/BLK (Right Turn). I have taken the column apart searched for bad wires, I have done everything that I can think it could be. Today I took the wire which is connected to the turn indicator switch on the column off of the flasher and then I touch that same terminal with a test light and it started to click the same way when its connected to the column, mind you that while its doing this the lights don't flash until you flip the lever either direction that you would normally do. I will attach a copy of the schematic that I used so please if anyone has any inkling to what I did or am doing wrong here cause I should be a lot farther with progress than I am and its because of this stupid and I'm sure very simple problem. Thanks for your time and for reading this, any input will be much appreciated...
     
  2. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    Your schematic really doesn't help or make sense. Doesn't the donor car actually use a body control module? A lot of newer cars run turn signals a hazard flashers through them. Ford wiring is way too complicated. What turn signal switch is in the aftermarket column? Most use a GM signal switch because they're simpler.
     
  3. eetech00

    Senior Member

    Jun 8, 2013
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    Hi
    So...did you make your own flasher circuit?
    If so,post the circuit schematic and wiring connections
    eT
     
  4. ian field

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 27, 2012
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    Looks like the switchgear for an American car with full wide rear light/brake light/ indicator back bar.
     
  5. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    First of all thanks for the replies, Not sure what you mean by Body Control Module, and the column I believe is originally for a VW Beetle but converted for use in the Factory Five MK4 Roadsters. I have attached a schematic of what I made with all the connections, I drew this up really quick so please bare with me, lol. Inside of the column the three wires go in through the column to a small board were they are connected to copper contacts where when the switch is moved to either position it connects to the specific wire, its actually very simple. I can see the wire all the way from were my connection is to this board is with the contacts and there is no bad spots or anything. I disconnected the wire that goes to the switch on the flasher which would be post (L) and then I put a test light to it and when I did this it started clicking as if the wire was connected, so would that mean its grounding out somewhere from the L post to the switch?. Cause that's what I'm doing essentially is grounding it out when I put the test light on the post?. I have also attached a schematic of the column switch well rough diagram again please bare with me I'm no artist, lol. thanks again for the replies and your time....
     
  6. jasone

    Member

    Nov 2, 2015
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    You have everything working but the flasher constantly clicks? then it sounds like it has a constant load on it.

    The bottom right flasher looks like it has a constant load. Is it the one that constantly clicks?
     
  7. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

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    A BCM is what is used in a Ford to make the turn signal work, a computer module. But since your not using the Ford column but a VW one, using a VW wiring diagram is the way to go. The very with the year of the column so this link is to images of all of the different ways they were wired. You need to pick the correct one that matches the model year of your column. Being a car builder/hot rodder, in the US most every aftermarket column uses the GM/Chevy turn signal switch and wiring diagram, since they are arguably the simplest and easiest. I don't know where you're located so don't know what they use there.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+...i=0yQTWcHJIcbVmAHF8bKIDg#imgrc=ncdxF59v7XufxM:
     
  8. jasone

    Member

    Nov 2, 2015
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    Move your red dash light north of the SPDT switch but before the "Y" diodes.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  9. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    Thanks for for the reply, no sorry i should of specified which one, but its the top one the turn flasher.
     
  10. jasone

    Member

    Nov 2, 2015
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    Not sure I trust your diagram. Ditch the 3 pin turn signal relay and try an older 2 pin part # c6az13350b
    Jason
     
  11. ian field

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 27, 2012
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    On cars; the 2 pin type were usually bi-metal strip type that don't need an earth.

    The 2 pin type common on Jap motorcycles usually contain a relay, capacitor and resistor.

    The modern 3 pin car indicator relays that contain a timing chip are orders of magnitude more reliable.

    Somewhere I have a hand trace of a basic transistor astable indicator relay - it doesn't click and will probably do weird things if not properly loaded.
     
  12. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    Ok thanks ill try that, what about the three pin that are labeled 46, 47, 47a are they different from say the one im using which is labeled E B L? Which im assuming means E: Earth, B: Batt (+), L: Switch.
     
  13. jasone

    Member

    Nov 2, 2015
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    If E B L were true then your red dash light would always be putting a load on the hazard flasher. That is why I mentioned moving it. To me that looks like a situation were a flasher continuously clicks. But you are saying it's the other turn signal flasher.

    It's possible B is Bat, E is load, and L is for an indicator light. That should be easy to try
     
  14. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    Ok cool ill definitely try that as well. I work on the car tomorrow and also im thinking that going with the two post flasher might be my best bet, also could i possible put something in the circuit to counter act the red light from causing the load which would be another diode correct?, im using a 1N4001 diode..
     
  15. jasone

    Member

    Nov 2, 2015
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    Not sure I can accurately answer that. I'm more of the guy who works on Mustangs than the guy who makes kits cars.
     
  16. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    i understand that completely, this is my first kit car to and yeah most of it has been a breeze but this damn electrical part has been kickin my butt, its obviouse auto electric is not my strong suit. With the mustang flasher circuit it goes from the multifunction switch to the flasher relay which is both turn\hazard indicator, i could not for the life of me get any of it to work, when im using the harness, ecm, both fuse boxes, all relay modules. Basically everything that made it work in the Mustang and nothing. By the way the donor is a 2001 SVT Mustang Cobra DOHC 4.6L
    Anyway hey thanks for your opinion and time it is much appreciated.
     
  17. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    Are you contradicting your self? I thought you said the column and switch were from a VW? Turn signal switches aren't universal. One brand won't work the others , you need to use a VW wiring schematic not a Ford, if the column and switch are sourced from a VW. I have spent ~50 years doing this stuff for myself and friends, building cars from different parts to make one, while not a 'kit car' it is the same thing and the basis of the whole 'kit car' industry.
     
  18. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    Yes i understand what your saying, you must of misunderstood me, yes it is from a VW and the diagram im going off of is the one that came with the column, which is the first one i uploaded.
     
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  19. jonmarion

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 17, 2017
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    Victory, we have fixed the problem. I couldn't have done it without everyone who replied so thank you very much, you have no idea how much of a relief it is to have figured out this issue. One more thing though, if you look at my diagram you can see that the red dash light is spliced into each of the indicator wired out of the column and so is the green dash light. So heres my problem, when i turn on each indicator separately the green dash light works great and no red like it should be, but when I turn on the hazards both green and red flash when all I want is for the red to flash for hazards. Can i put a diode somewhere or possibly move the hazard wires below the turn wires or will that do the same thing?. Anyway again thank you guys very very much on the feedback.
     
  20. csnyder

    New Member

    May 15, 2017
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    When you power the same circuit from both ends it is pretty difficult to isolate the indicators. If I was doing it, I'd use 2 indicators for the signals - left and right. That way no diodes are required, and when the 4 ways are turned on both indicators flash. I'd also use a 2 terminal tridon electronic flasher instead of the 3 terminal - for both turn and emergency flashers. Just a whole lot simpler setup. The only way to do it with your circuit, that I can see, is to use an LED indicator and connect the output of the emergency flasher to the "low side" of the directional indicator, between the indicator LED and the current dropping resistor on the ground side so the LED is reverse biased when the emergency flashers are on. This would balance the voltage on both sides of the LED and it would not light. You might need to play a bit with resistance between the emergency flasher and the "back" of the LED.
     
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