agreed ... but I also find it immoral to kill an animal (unless it's a pest)

A lion chomping on your arm can be awfully annoying.

 

I know, morality is a very relative term. But there are some negative moral aspects of human behavior that are universal, like rape, or murder for profit... etc

Let's just say murder in general is abhorrent in general. No need to add the "for profit" part.

 

Let's just say murder in general is abhorrent in general. No need to add the "for profit" part.

I like to be specific in my hypothetical examples...

 

No Camping.

https://www.kptv.com/news/commissio...cle_fa34386c-a9ce-11e9-9eeb-67db1fd13004.html

The state agency confirms it laid boulders and cement on at least seven ODOT properties throughout Portland.

An ODOT spokesperson says the boulders are a “disincentive” for homeless people to camp on the land since it is unsafe to have them sleeping next to high-traffic areas.

According to him, just this Monday a homeless person was killed in a deadly crash near I-205 and Highway 212.

Maybe we could have a ‘sponsor a boulder’ program?

 

No Camping.

https://www.kptv.com/news/commissio...cle_fa34386c-a9ce-11e9-9eeb-67db1fd13004.html


Maybe we could have a ‘sponsor a boulder’ program?

I noticed fencing under one of the under passes on my ride into Seattle last week. The boulder solution seems to be more practical until someone gets comfortable camping on boulders. Maybe they could add rattlesnakes?

 

I noticed fencing under one of the under passes on my ride into Seattle last week. The boulder solution seems to be more practical until someone gets comfortable camping on boulders. Maybe they could add rattlesnakes?

You would need to be really stoned to get comfortable on this.

 

Rattlesnakes would still be fun.

 

Rattlesnakes would still be fun.

We already have problems with Whiskey and Uranium, we don't need those Rattlesnake problems too.

 

My son and I took the Amtrak from Savannah GA to Seattle WA and back a few years ago. You get a good view of what "the other side of the tracks" really looks like. WA, OR, and CA are homeless heaven. Here in coastal SE GA they don't stop and are headed for bigger cities like Savannah or Jacksonville. It reminds me of before the great "War on Poverty" in the late 60s and the widespread advent of public housing. Back when the homeless lived in cardboard boxes.

 

My son and I took the Amtrak from Savannah GA to Seattle WA and back a few years ago. You get a good view of what "the other side of the tracks" really looks like. WA, OR, and CA are homeless heaven. Here in coastal SE GA they don't stop and are headed for bigger cities like Savannah or Jacksonville. It reminds me of before the great "War on Poverty" in the late 60s and the widespread advent of public housing. Back when the homeless lived in cardboard boxes.

For some reason train stations seem to attract homeless. The problem on the tracks into Sacramento is really bad.

I was on the Willamette River bike path and spotted an excursion train stopped with a police officer speaking to the engineer. Don't know if someone was hit or what. But I could not help but thinking why there would be an excursion train out of Portland. It is really too far from the river to get a good view. My only thoughts were for tourists to be able to see how the folks from the wrong side of the tracks live.

 

We already have problems with Whiskey and Uranium, we don't need those Rattlesnake problems too.

I had no idea Japan had a homeless problem too. Figured it was not in their culture.

 

I had no idea Japan had a homeless problem too. Figured it was not in their culture.

It's not culture, it's a human condition. Japan still locks up most of the crazies and hard drug use is still rare. There always has been and always will be vagabonds, tramps, hobos and drunks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San'ya

 

It's not culture, it's a human condition. Japan still locks up most of the crazies and hard drug use is still rare. There always has been and always will be vagabonds, tramps, hobos and drunks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San'ya

It is cultural or can be. Just as the Japanese don't have anywhere near the issue with crime like we do.

 

It is cultural or can be. Just as the Japanese don't have anywhere near the issue with crime like we do.

No, but they still have the crazies.
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201907180088.html

 

https://www.kptv.com/news/portland-...cle_895cbbfc-a8ff-11e9-8b07-e3b8249f0f4b.html

At some point, the Corrados said they ran into the homeless couple and exchanged polite conversation. But soon after, the Corrados said their off-leash dog tried to follow another dog. That, their lawsuit states, triggered the homeless man to go on a brutal and bloody rampage – attacking the Corrados with rocks and a metal baton.

“There just isn’t enough being done to protect the citizens of Portland, who deserve to be protected, that are law-abiding, taxpaying citizens that go to work every day and enjoy their time off without having to constantly look over their shoulder,” Andrew Corrado said. “Constantly being afraid to go out in public, constantly being afraid that if someone asks you a question and if you give them the wrong answer that you’re going to be pummeled and end up in the hospital getting staples in your head.”

Sorry but the police/city have no duty to protect you from criminal activity or harm. This has been to the Supreme Court several times, always with the same result.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/...ot-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

 

The biggest part of the problem is the huge complexity that has grown up in the insulin supply chain (and other drugs, too). Although the list prices have sky rocketed, the net prices received by the manufacturers is increasing at more-or-less the rate of inflation. But lots of other outsiders, such as pharmacy benefit managers, have found ways to insert themselves into the system and suck at the trough. As a result, they have managed to take an already murky supply chain and turn it into something truly Byzantine. As with many things, transparency and simplicity is the solution. A pharmacy should order their insulin supplies from the manufacturer or a distributor and post their prices. Insurance companies should post what they are willing to pay for each kind of insulin. Both lists should be publicly available. The same should be true for nearly all medical supplies and services. The consumer then shops around for the insurance plan that gives them the best overall coverage and shops around for the pharmacy that gives them the best price knowing they have to pay the difference. You would see out-of-pocket costs plummet overnight.

The one flaw in this process is your last step. The burden placed on the consumer to “shop around” is odious. The product of all possible providers, all possible product, all possible insurers and all possible schedules... quickly becomes difficult, if not impossible, to navigate.

And as a matter of fact, I propose that due to the complexity in making this decisions, that suppliers, distributors, and insurers will exploit loopholes and CONSUMER OUT-OF-POCKET EXPENSES WILL SKYROCKET.

I went through a similar process when I had to select a Medicare plan... I needed professional assistance and still I’m not confident that I have made the best choice.

I am an engineer and mathematician. My IQ is in the genius range. My career was in an analytical field. I can create spreadsheets for analysis in my sleep.

And I am not confident in my decision.

And you want the average health care consumer to perform this type of analysis? I expected better from you.

 

The one flaw in this process is your last step. The burden placed on the consumer to “shop around” is odious. The product of all possible providers, all possible product, all possible insurers and all possible schedules... quickly becomes difficult, if not impossible, to navigate.

And as a matter of fact, I propose that due to the complexity in making this decisions, that suppliers, distributors, and insurers will exploit loopholes and CONSUMER OUT-OF-POCKET EXPENSES WILL SKYROCKET.

I went through a similar process when I had to select a Medicare plan... I needed professional assistance and still I’m not confident that I have made the best choice.

I am an engineer and mathematician. My IQ is in the genius range. My career was in an analytical field. I can create spreadsheets for analysis in my sleep.

And I am not confident in my decision.

And you want the average health care consumer to perform this type of analysis? I expected better from you.

Millions of people seem the handle the same decisions with a lot less qualifications than genius range IQ.

 

Millions of people seem the handle the same decisions with a lot less qualifications than genius range IQ.

You present an argument that can’t be argued.

Since the process WBahn proposed doesn’t exist, there are no metrics with which to judge.

My point is not that such decisions could not be made. It is that the complexity will result more often than not in a non-optimal choice. Plus the complexity begets manipulation that results not only in a non-optimal solution for the consumer but indeed provides an advantage to all participants other than the consumer.

Are you of the age such that you have gone through the Medicare selection process? If so, you must have experienced the existing system and it’s flaws.

Let’s make sone assumptions that may or may not be realistic. How many insurers did you consider? How many plans for each insurer? What options were considered?

Did you go into the process with a model of your healthcare needs (# medical visits, type of care, %age of specialist visits, prescription drugs by coverage level, vision care needs, status of dental care, anticipated # and length of hospitalization...) All of these were questions asked of me by potential providers.

Multiply the ordinals of each option together. There are hundreds of distinct answer to be considered.

And not regarding my other comments, I propose that a consumer presented with hundreds of choices at once has a slim chance of picking a good choice, nevermind an optimal one.

 

You present an argument that can’t be argued.

Since the process WBahn proposed doesn’t exist, there are no metrics with which to judge.

My point is not that such decisions could not be made. It is that the complexity will result more often than not in a non-optimal choice. Plus the complexity begets manipulation that results not only in a non-optimal solution for the consumer but indeed provides an advantage to all participants other than the consumer.

Are you of the age such that you have gone through the Medicare selection process? If so, you must have experienced the existing system and it’s flaws.

Let’s make sone assumptions that may or may not be realistic. How many insurers did you consider? How many plans for each insurer? What options were considered?

Did you go into the process with a model of your healthcare needs (# medical visits, type of care, %age of specialist visits, prescription drugs by coverage level, vision care needs, status of dental care, anticipated # and length of hospitalization...) All of these were questions asked of me by potential providers.

Multiply the ordinals of each option together. There are hundreds of distinct answer to be considered.

And not regarding my other comments, I propose that a consumer presented with hundreds of choices at once has a slim chance of picking a good choice, nevermind an optimal one.

I'm still working and have company and VA health care.

You are seem to serious underestimating the ability of us common folk (boomers) to make good financial decisions without being a mathematical genius. The choice might not be optimal but it's likely to be more that adequate for the anticipated needs.

 

I'm still working and have company and VA health care.

You are seem to serious underestimating the ability of us common folk (boomers) to make good financial decisions without being a mathematical genius. The choice might not be optimal but it's likely to be more that adequate for the anticipated needs.

So you have no experience in what I’m talking about? Ok.

I’m definitely not underestimating the ability of making adequate decisions. As a matter of fact, that is exactly a component of my comment. I’m actually agreeing with you that an adequate solution can be found. Where we disagree, I think, is in the definition of adequate.

And while a choice may be adequate, it likely has unfairly enriched others at your expense. You could have “adequate” coverage at significantly lower cost.

Some health care brokers will provide a mathematical model, which based on your data, will produce an optimal result... for their product only! No chance to cost compare.

As I recall, my experience went like this...

In my case, I built the model myself. It compared 16 plans, three providers and optimized options (in this case, there were sixteen possible options combinations per plan), and used my health history to produce a recommendation...

• number of specialists (7),
• est. number of visits (42),
• est. hospitalization (1),
• total prescriptions (12)
• Prescription classifications (tiers 1-4),
• dental
• vision

There was almost $1k/year savings between the optimal and next plan. Living in retirement on a fixed income, that savings pays for a lot of breakfasts at McDonald’s. Or even pay for a vacation.