# The Twin Paradox in its actual form......

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
Motion is relative. According to special relativity in inertial frame an object is always at rest and all objects clock ether ticks the same or slower as the observer. They tick the same is if they are at rest with the observer or moving in the same direction with the same speed.
But no clock moves faster.

Two inertial objects located at a reasonable distance in empty space with respect to each other with no other frames to come in play or interfer.

You are in one and your twin is in the other.
How would anyone of you determine who is moving and who is not or who ages less or more than the other?

Good luck. I don't have the answer and I have never seen the answer. All the other answers are not related to the actual twin paradox although they make it look like it is.

#### WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
30,254
Motion is relative. According to special relativity in inertial frame an object is always at rest and all objects clock ether ticks the same or slower as the observer. They tick the same is if they are at rest with the observer or moving in the same direction with the same speed.
Moving in the same direction with the same speed as what? The observer? But you seem to just say that the observer is always at rest in an inertial frame, so how can moving in the same direction with the same speed be an option to being at rest with the observer?

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
Moving in the same direction with the same speed as what? The observer? But you seem to just say that the observer is always at rest in an inertial frame, so how can moving in the same direction with the same speed be an option to being at rest with the observer?
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" But you seem to just say that the observer is always at rest in an inertial frame ".
That is correct, that is what I am saying, what they are saying. I am saying they are saying that. Find out if that is what they are saying. Perhaps you have not looked closer at the whole shrade.

When a car next to you drive at the same speed as yours, you can ask them to pass the grey poupon, use it and give it back to them, no problems at all. Just as if they were sitting across from you at the dinner table. But hey,, maybe some folks are just clumsy.. but that is another story...

Right. That is the point they are making. You only know the other who is moving and not you. Do you see anywhere in special relativity that mentions the other's clock to move faster than yours?
Either the other's clock is moving at the same rate as yours or slower. That is it.
If you saw the other's clock to tick faster than your clock, it means it is you that is moving.
And my joke is this to everybody: When I am in a train and I see another train next to my train. When one of them begins to move, to me it is 50/50 as to which one is actually moving. Why 50/50?, because it depends how I feel that day. And as to whether I have paid attention if my feeling is right or not afterwards. I haven't paid attention. I will have to get back to you on that. And of course I never get back to them and that is another joke all by itself. Two for the price of one.

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#### cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,279
Mach's principle comes to mind...

#### BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
9,189
Velocity cannot be sensed but changes in velocity can. Your train n example is false. If you and your twin are sitting in train’s side by side with no relative motion, then suddenly the trains are moving relative to each other, at least one twin experienced an acceleration, which can be sensed by the body if large enough and by sensitive accelerometer if not.

The theory of relativity tells us what two clocks will read after any scenario, period. There is no paradox.

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
I am getting there. Slowely I am getting there.
I knew I should have started at the atom. I started at the right foot but I got distracted with Special Relativity lingo, clocks and trains and twins. I not only see confusions everywhere but feel it. Feel it in my body. A big load is off of me now.
Time is a complicated network of resonant frequency of the atoms and in everything and the oscillations itself is what constitutes cause and effect, i.e. photons. Cessium atom oscillates..................
Not now......... I need to let it al settle first..... let it all settle so it can take shape....

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
Anything that is symmetric between the two frames is not time dilation
That train clock going up and down thing...that is not time dilation.
Remember this:

That is symmetric. If both clocks tick slower... what does that end up to be. Weird, right? The minute the frames stop, it dissapears.

Okay here is another one that is not time dilation. It is doppler effect.

That is also symmetrical. It just shows if the distance between the two frames are increasing or decreasing. And nothing more. It does not show which frame is truly time dilated nor does it show which frame is moving away or coming closer to the other. So that is not time dilation.

Now acceleration being the cause is meaningless. Outright meaningless.
Change of frame totally meaningless.

When you are moving close to speed of light and the other is not for instance, that is not a relationship to the other object.
You are moving through spacetime at all times. And when you speed up, you are moving more in space and less in time and the other person who is just sitting is not moving through space. Or if the other persson is not moving as fast, their time ticks faster.
The only time both clocks will be the same after it is all said and done is this:
Just look in the mirror, whatever you do , your image in the mirror does the same thing, your reflection.
If both frames move in mirror like manner, when the two meet they will be aging the same. Otherwise whoever moves the fastest ages less when they meet.

Another way of putting it.
Whoever moves through spacetime the fastest ages less.
It doesn't mean a whole lot. All it says is that person also experiences lesss.
So it is even playing field.
You don't get something for nothing.
So when it comes down to it, everyone is in spacetime equally. So we are all moving the same as photons as far as spacetime is concerned. If it not time, it is space or a mixture of the two. There are only two ingredients on your plate and they ain't going anywhere.