I think you need to give the scientists more credit than that.

A scientist would most likely rush into the room, look for all sources of heat, determine which had the greatest effect, and then take or look through records of temperatures from a variety of times.

I believe we have found or discovered the major effects on the global environment. Short of some sort of 'dark energy' what else could there be?

 

Point of no return is a bit of a hyperbole. We got ourselves into this mess, we can get ourselves out of it. There are lots of activities that lead to global cooling. Particulates for example, there was an article a while back that speculated that the reason global warming was not as big an issue as a lot of people predicted is the particulates we are dumping into the atmosphere. Google global dimming.

The big thing I think a lot of people miss is the weather is a dynamic system. It is going to shift, always, to many variables. Humans have just become one more (or lots more) variables. People don't like change, especially when it can cause food shortages and other issues. As usual, we will adapt. It is what humans do, it is why we occupy every continent on this planet, even if it is token numbers.

One good super-volcano eruption anywhere on the planet will show us how badly things can really get screwed up. Even a couple of medium ones can make a huge difference. We don't worry about it, because there isn't much we can do about it, but it is conceivable 100's of millions (or even billions) could die from food shortages.

It is a cold point of view, but I liked Heinlein's assessment. Bad times for the individual are good times for the race.

Thats nice to think we can get our selves out easy but this was before we realized the ice packs at the N and S pole are full of huge pockets of methane.If these melts we won't even have waterworld because the methane will poison our air and increase our global temps rapidly. If their was billions of gallons of methane under the glaciers I'd say we had a shot. After that was discovered we pretty much screwed.

 

Currently in science we have two very large camps of very qualified experts, arguing both sides of this "climate change" argument.

Apparently there are more "experts" who do not deny that global warming is related to human activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming#Global_warming_controversy

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/global_warming_contrarians/

I agree that for most of us earth's climate is much to complex to be really understood. So if someone warns you about something wether you believe in it or not, wouldn't it be clever to at least consider the opinion of someone who apparently knows more about a subject than yourself?

Just my opinion. There are many things where I have to listen to experts just because I do not have enough knowledge. There are other things I see and feel myself and I do not need any expert.

For many years I was asking myself who needs all this stuff we produce? Currently I work in a place where I don't see any usefulness in the products we design, at least not for me...

For me, overproduction, overconsumption and therefore overpollution are all related. Even if we deny human influence on global warming, other pollutions are still there, I can hear, smell and see them.

Someone was writing about using nuclear power everywhere. Yeah, well, and what exactly do we do with the waste? Dump it somewhere, sure. For how long? How does this fit with an ever increasing population density?

Where exactly will people live when nobody wants to live near a nuclear plant nor a waste dump? (I wouldn't want to)

The good times are coming to an end. Just my opinion.

 

Nealy all respected scientist believe Global warming and stuff like the fisheries being depleted is man made. Its kinda hard to not believe. Its gonna go the road of Evolution. People will always believe we rode dinosaurs but that just not the facts. Finally once the pope came out and said Evolution was no longer myth and is concrete fact we saw a big jump is people who understood. But no matter what someone will not believe. Hell we still argueing the moon landings.

 

No effect at all, just look as Alberta - oil sands, South America - mining. Ecosystems gone that took thousands of years to develop, will never be brought back. I am sure the settlers never thought the buffalo will disappear either. Some things are irreversable.

Nuclear power - has been operational for a long time, still don't know how to deal with waste
In Canada oil sands are the topic of the day - well, that is even worse, 40 years+ in operation, one mining site "reclaimed" and the tailings ponds are a big fat question mark. First they said it was going to be a few years for particulates to settle out, now it is more like 150... nice legacy. Well there is more...

no impact?

 

From http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta...0-new-e-mails-rock-the-global-warming-debate/

Three themes are emerging from the newly released emails: (1) prominent scientists central to the global warming debate are taking measures to conceal rather than disseminate underlying data and discussions; (2) these scientists view global warming as a political “cause” rather than a balanced scientific inquiry and (3) many of these scientists frankly admit to each other that much of the science is weak and dependent on deliberate manipulation of facts and data.

Interesting.

 

Yep. That's what happens to "science" and "facts" when billions of dollars are up for grabs.

...Thats nice to think we can get our selves out easy but this was before we realized the ice packs at the N and S pole are full of huge pockets of methane.If these melts we won't even have waterworld because the methane will poison our air and increase our global temps rapidly.

Hello Chicken Little.

... I agree that for most of us earth's climate is much to complex to be really understood. So if someone warns you about something wether you believe in it or not, wouldn't it be clever to at least consider the opinion of someone who apparently knows more about a subject than yourself? ...

Absolutely! I like to think I'm open-minded and listen to opinions, especially from people that know more than me. But what about the opinion of some very smart people who have been "following the money"? Or exposing the iffy "facts" that are often presented (hockey stick case for one).

If it's possible huge corporations are pushing "sneaky X" agenda, or "honest Y" agenda... And facts show that they have billions of dollars to gain from pushing "sneaky X", then what would open-minded common sense make of the probabilities?

 

Hello Chicken Little.

?
This is generally not a reaction I envisioned in relation to being 'open minded'.

 

If it's possible huge corporations are pushing "sneaky X" agenda, or "honest Y" agenda... And facts show that they have billions of dollars to gain from pushing "sneaky X", then what would open-minded common sense make of the probabilities?

If it's really the money that dictates what scientists are telling us about global warming then why are there so many saying it is indeed us the responsible?
What advantage could there be for anyone having money (international multi-billion cooperations, banks etc)?

It starts all wrong when we allow companies to destroy biodiversity, forests that took hundreds of years to develop. Short term profit always has priority over possibly harmful long term effects.
Global warming or not. One day it will come back to us because we are not dominating nature nor are we separated from it. Very simple.

 

Does anyone else feel we're going a little off-topic here? Wondering if this would be better as its own thread....

 

Does anyone else feel we're going a little off-topic here? Wondering if this would be better as its own thread....

Yes........

 

The nightly news is suppose to have the dangers of "energy efficient" lighting.

Are we substituting one danger (global warming) for another?

 

The nightly news is suppose to have the dangers of "energy efficient" lighting.

Are we substituting one danger (global warming) for another?

lead, mercury, or UV exposure?!

Similarly, there are many adverse effects to most alternative forms of energy - solar panels, batteries to store energy, etc... ultimately people refuse to sit down and say this is where we want to be 50, 100, 200 years from now.

We simply do not learn - cod fishery collapsed, whaling collapsed, lumber is gone, salmon barely here due to heavy regulations. Wolves know how to hunt to ensure that they have food for next year, but all people care about is money which is NOT essential for our survival as it will not bring back clean water, land or other things.

 

ultimately people refuse to sit down and say this is where we want to be 50, 100, 200 years from now.

Throw in a few agenda's and you'll get a good mess.

 

?
This is generally not a reaction I envisioned in relation to being 'open minded'.

I'll defend that. Maxpower said; "... huge pockets of methane.If these melts we won't even have waterworld"

Waterworld is a science fiction "end of the world" story where the entire planet is covered in water, a laughable concept. Maxpower was (I believe) stating that if the "huge pockets of methane" are released the world will be even WORSE than a ridiculous end of the world sci-fi scenario.

It's extreme alarmist views like that which makes people look like Chicken Little's. There's a percentage of people that WANT to believe that the global warming is 100% real, and 100% really really really bad, and 100% caused by man.

If you want to know if someone is a Chicken Little discuss those three concepts and see if they will talk percentages on any of those concepts.

Or have a look on the pro-"climate change" websites for any open discussion on what percentage their facts have been distorted or hyped.

It's like asking a radical feminist to discuss the percentage of stuff that is really good about men... Or "over unity" believers discussing the percentage efficiency of their water-fueled car gizmo.

 

RB,

both sides distort their statistics. It is a given. New data comes out all the time. Pick your preferred computer simulation and run with it, I am sure a slight shift in parameters will point to global cooling, this was actually admitted by people running them. But only a fool will close his/her eyes to the impact that people are having on the state of this planet's ecosystems. We are a parasitic species if there ever was one - move in, destroy, die out. Guess phase II is near completion? Look at what happened to all other resource-based civilizations, this is just bigger scale.

p.s. I'd image the answer would depend on his "stuff" where good=useful

 

According to the news last night, there are high emissions of uv light ... but nothing to worry about. I guess the "discoverers" just wanted some publicity.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/11/05/tests-show-fluorescent-light-bulbs-emit-high-uv-rays/

 

Don't forget that people were afraid of the fumes from electricity when electricity was first installed in the home.

Toasters were strange contraptions feared by many, and the telephone was a mystery.

 

Don't forget that people were afraid of the fumes from electricity when electricity was first installed in the home.
Toasters were strange contraptions feared by many, and the telephone was a mystery.

Nice. Who measured the "fumes" from electricity and whatever the strange effects caused by telephones and toasters?
The report stated it was measured in the lab, not some hype by a couple of "drunken" college students.

Look into the nuclear radiation issue concerning the scientists and officers in the armed forces not forewarning the enlisted of that went onto "hot" ships to scrub them down in the Eniwetek Atoll area during the atomic testing there.

Look into the "bremsstrahlung" effect when using vacuum tubes with potentials greater than 15 keV. Some of your countrymen may have been subject to nuclear ionization from that effect. In latter genereations of that system's equipment, had measured 3 rems per hour in a specific location in that equipment.

 

Why sweat global warming when we have a super volcano,planet x and rouge asteroids around every corner =P

Tho none of these are my favorite end times scenario,I say bring on Captain Trips!

M-O-O-N that spells Armageddon!