A Cadillac body control module forgot how to operate the passenger door outside mirror. I had to reprogram the body control module to get it working again.

On my girl friend's Chrysler convertible, the door windows go down a half inch when you open the door and roll up again when you close it to clear the weather strips. Sometimes the window will go down, up, down, up, down, up, down until you close the door. Sometimes the window will stay down or it will stay up and be sprung outside the weather strip when you close the door. There is a procedure to reset it by cycling the convertible top and windows.

In my opinion, these systems are not ready to control thousands of pounds of steel hurtling down the road at 70 MPH with people inside.

 

https://securityledger.com/2019/02/...groups-paint-dark-picture-of-right-to-repair/

There will be dark times in New Hampshire should the state pass a proposed right to repair bill into law. Curious children could find themselves dismembered by run-away washing machines. A phalanx of illegally modified lawn tractors and leaf blowers will belch pollution in defiance of the EPA, darkening the sky that inspired native son Robert Frost.

 

https://securityledger.com/2019/02/...groups-paint-dark-picture-of-right-to-repair/

Last year, industry groups and their lobbyists parlayed money and access to legislators to defeat right to repair bills in 17 states, most while still in committee.

Every time I read something like this I lose a little bit more faith. This is really the problem. Right to Repair is just a symptom. The notion of Right to Repair should not need to be spoken, much less passed as law. How on earth is it that, in a 1st world country which asserts itself as the morally/ethically irreproachable beacon of white light to all other countries, the end-all/be-all example that the rest of the universe should strive to emulate, can we have a system of legalized bribery? I think most people know what a lobbyist is and what they do, yet most are silent about it. This seems like the kind of thing people would March and protest and riot about. But the focus is always on something else. Why is that? Why does nobody seem to care that our government is played like a fiddle by entities with interests conflicting with those of the people?

 

our government is played like a fiddle

And rewarded handsomely for it. It's greed and corruption that has us where we are today. Not just the US but many, dare I say "Most" countries exist for the benefit of politicians and leaders. Few actually govern on behalf of the masses.

 

And rewarded handsomely for it. It's greed and corruption that has us where we are today. Not just the US but many, dare I say "Most" countries exist for the benefit of politicians and leaders. Few actually govern on behalf of the masses.

All that will change the day Orcas stop playing water polo with and making a meal of baby seals.

Let's not go too far to the political.

 

And rewarded handsomely for it. It's greed and corruption that has us where we are today. Not just the US but many, dare I say "Most" countries exist for the benefit of politicians and leaders. Few actually govern on behalf of the masses.

Guess who is for it? https://www.alec.org/article/right-...andates-and-will-jeopardize-consumer-privacy/

 

Let's not go too far to the political.

I agree.

 

I don't see how this thread can exist without allowing politics. Sorting out the rights of competing interests is the very definition of politics.

 

I don't see how this thread can exist without allowing politics.

Not sure if "Politics" is a taboo subject, but I DO know that bashing one party over another does cross a line. Well, that's my opinion. It's my opinion because my wife gave it to me!

 

I don't see how this thread can exist without allowing politics. Sorting out the rights of competing interests is the very definition of politics.

Sure, politics is a method used by those who wish to undermine the right to repair in our legal system governed by laws written by politicians. It's a "means to an end" that will never stop happening, not the objective.

 

So... it's ok if we argue about the politics of politics, but not about politics itself? ...

 

So... it's ok if we argue about te politics of politics, but not about politics itself? ...

I would prefer we do what gives us more freedom to make choices, the politics of fixing a dishwasher seems obvious.

 

I would prefer we do what gives us more freedom to make choices,

That's the way I see it, but ALEC sees it differently. You do know what ALEC is don't you?

I'll stop repairing things when they take my tools from my cold dead hands.

 

I really get angry if thinking about things around. Manufacturers consumers quality for example an TV and audio/music and other stuff also, with the passion of madnesses makes things with planning devices life for short period and they stop supporting replacement parts. Engineers often must working with pressuring by their employees until they get their requests about life devices and over complicated designs difficult for repairs in regular repair shop. It is notorious and now probably every big commercial companies is going’s in this way. I is wired and for most of regular technicians is a sign that they need go up with knowledge and qualifications or changing professions.

 

I had an air conditioner that had a box on the plug with a circuit breaker reset button on it. Eventually it would pop the breaker every time I turned it on. I opened the plug box and found a circuit board with a burnt trace. I cut the cord and put a regular plug on it. It worked fine for years. It annoyed me that they had put that unnecessary BS on there. Just one more thing to go wrong. You wouldn't call a repair man to fix a window unit A/C. I wondered how many people threw away a good A/C because that plug burnt up?

 

I'm conflicted on this topic. I've spent my life tearing things apart and, as I grew older and picked up a few skills, fixing a fair percentage of them. Nothing is more frustrating than having to trash something for lack of a replacement part. One that sticks in my mind was a friend's paper shredder. Everything worked perfectly except for a plastic gear that had broken. I searched a long time but eventually had to give up.

So anyway I'm on the side of believing the things we buy should be fixable.

But I'm NOT on the side of laws coercing manufacturers to provide us parts and instructions if they choose not to. If I'm manufacturing a machine, it should be my choice whether I provide that sort of support. If all customers were like me, I'd probably choose to support repair since my customers would pay more for that feature of my product. My dad used to buy from Sears because he knew he'd get a parts diagram and would be able to buy parts well into the future.

Market forces should be the only coercion manufacturers respond to. Modern consumers sadly don't demand repairability and won't pay a premium for it. You and I might, but we're the outlier tail of the distribution. We're a niche and manufacturers are safe ignoring us. I wish it were different.

Many of our laws encourage manufacturers to prevent repair as a way to reduce exposure to liability and regulatory problems. Wayne's Law of Unintended Consequences is at play. I definitely support changing those laws so they don't encourage manufacturers to prevent user-repair. We should do everything we can to encourage repair, short of outrightly mandating it.

 

I'm conflicted on this topic. I've spent my life tearing things apart and, as I grew older and picked up a few skills, fixing a fair percentage of them. Nothing is more frustrating than having to trash something for lack of a replacement part. One that sticks in my mind was a friend's paper shredder. Everything worked perfectly except for a plastic gear that had broken. I searched a long time but eventually had to give up.

So anyway I'm on the side of believing the things we buy should be fixable.

But I'm NOT on the side of laws coercing manufacturers to provide us parts and instructions if they choose not to. If I'm manufacturing a machine, it should be my choice whether I provide that sort of support. If all customers were like me, I'd probably choose to support repair since my customers would pay more for that feature of my product. My dad used to buy from Sears because he knew he'd get a parts diagram and would be able to buy parts well into the future.

Market forces should be the only coercion manufacturers respond to. Modern consumers sadly don't demand repairability and won't pay a premium for it. You and I might, but we're the outlier tail of the distribution. We're a niche and manufacturers are safe ignoring us. I wish it were different.

Many of our laws encourage manufacturers to prevent repair as a way to reduce exposure to liability and regulatory problems. Wayne's Law of Unintended Consequences is at play. I definitely support changing those laws so they don't encourage manufacturers to prevent user-repair. We should do everything we can to encourage repair, short of outrightly mandating it.

I think the main problem is they want to stop, repair, period, to third parties with the capabilities to correctly repair with criminal and civil penalties. It's not a matter of manuals or parts to Joe Blow so the only legal way to stop this is to mandate the right to repair.

 

... the only legal way to stop this is to mandate the right to repair.

Well again, I think the market should be enough force, not laws. If customers really want the right to repair, they should only buy products that offer that. The problem is that too many customers don't give a crap, and so those products aren't offered.

Maybe the solution would be to identify the lack of right-to-repair products as a measure of abusive monopoly practices on a par with price-fixing or carving up markets. Companies bend over backwards to avoid those things because they know they'll end up in court.

 

I think the main problem is they want to stop, repair, period, to third parties with the capabilities to correctly repair with criminal and civil penalties. It's not a matter of manuals or parts to Joe Blow so the only legal way to stop this is to mandate the right to repair.

One of the reasons why I prefer to build my own controllers instead of using PLC's (when possible) is that they've turned PLC's into toasters. That is, after a given period of time (normally about 3 to 5 years) the company (Siemens, ABB, Allen-Bradley, etc...) launches a "new line" of PLC's with "more advanced capabilities" that makes the previous line obsolete. And if the old system fails, it can't be repaired, effectively forcing the user to eventually "upgrade" their whole system with the new products. And I think that's the main reason why they want to prevent third parties from fixing their old products... it would have a negative effect in their aim for promoting their new products.

 

Well again, I think the market should be enough force, not laws. If customers really want the right to repair, they should only buy products that offer that. The problem is that too many customers don't give a crap, and so those products aren't offered.

Maybe the solution would be to identify the lack of right-to-repair products as a measure of abusive monopoly practices on a par with price-fixing or carving up markets. Companies bend over backwards to avoid those things because they know they'll end up in court.

Sorry but pure market forces won't work here IMO. The market incentive is to restrict access as a way to increase market control while temporarily reducing pricing to kill the competition as you say. We do need to be light handed with laws as to not dictate every possible move.