Sadly Musk has become a personality cult, there are a lot of them around these days.

Ad hominem argument. It makes you look infintile.

Work on your debate skills.

 

I'm listening to the pre-launch chat now:

Just talked about the elevator that gets astronauts from the top of the (landed, moon's surface) Starship to the ground and how that hasn't been demonstrated and there's no public plan about what would happen if the elevator failed in some way.

The more I watch this the more stunned I am, like surely people can see this (the entire Artemis project) is an absolute catastrophe waiting to happen, the complexity of this is huge, as some retired NASA guys are saying, China's plan is much simpler and much more like the Apollo program.

The people pushing this are focusing on "happy path", an old software term.

 

China's plan...

Ha ha! (5 years?)

 

Ha ha! (5 years?)

I'm citing experienced rocketry engineers, former NASA engineers, China's timeline (given their lower level of complexity) is regarded as rational whereas 2028 "man land on moon" is regarded as unachievable by the Artemis program.

Would your rather succeed in five years time or fail in two?

 

Would your rather succeed in five years...

You missed my dig at communism.

Perhaps I should have said "a Great Leap Forward."

These 'plans' (five years or otherwise) tend to impoverish their people and result in a significant loss of lives.

Preserving and protecting life (spaceshot or otherwise) is not an overriding goal of the Chinese Communists.

Further, I'd like to point out that we've already landed men safely on the moon 57 years ago. They've got a ways to catch up, using, I am sure, our pilfered technology.

 

You missed my dig at communism.

Perhaps I should have said "a Great Leap Forward."

These 'plans' (five years or otherwise) tend to impoverish their people and result in a significant loss of lives.

Preserving and protecting life (spaceshot or otherwise) is not an overriding goal of the Chinese Communists.

Further, I'd like to point out that we've already landed men safely on the moon 57 years ago. They've got a ways to catch up, using, I am sure, our pilfered technology.

Two things. 1) You said avoid politics, so lets do that. 2) I grew up on Apollo (I'm 66), I was glued to my TV as a kid, I was 10 when Apollo 11 launched, I knew more about that space program than almost anything else at that time.

It was Apollo that got me hooked on technology, science, astronomy and later electronics and I likely know more about that space program that most people you'll meet.

I mentioned China because other American space experts mentioned China:

On Wednesday, former NASA Administrator Michael Griffin, 73, put forward a deferential but determined countenance as he addressed a House subcommittee that was conducting a hearing on NASA’s Artemis Program to return humans to the Moon.

“I will be direct,” Griffin said. “In my judgment, the Artemis Program is excessively complex, unrealistically priced, compromises crew safety, poses very high mission risk of completion, and is highly unlikely to be completed in a timely manner even if successful.”

and

“Sticking to a plan is important when the plan makes sense,” Griffin said. “China is sticking to a plan that makes sense. It looks a lot, in fact, like what the United States did for Apollo. Provably, that worked. Sticking to a plan that will not work for Artemis III and beyond makes no sense.”

So there's an American aerospace expert telling us this is a destined to fail, you want to disagree with Griffin, an American space engineer? be my guest.

Michael D. Griffin

Finally the Saturn 5 was designed by a German, invited to live and work here after WW2.

 

I already said I have similar sentiments about Artemis.

But this thread is not about government programs. By bringing up Artemis, you indirectly raised political issues.

Aside from that, here's what I know about the Chinese because I have worked with them:

1. They follow instructions very well.
2. They are not creative problem solvers.
3. They progress by copying the achievements of others.

They are like this probably because they are raised that way: to not have any confidence in their own individualism, and to trust only ideas from authority.

This is a fact. Whether or not their program is successful, it will not be on account of any special Chinese Ingenuity.

 

I'm listening to the pre-launch chat now:

Just talked about the elevator that gets astronauts from the top of the (landed, moon's surface) Starship to the ground and how that hasn't been demonstrated and there's no public plan about what would happen if the elevator failed in some way.

The more I watch this the more stunned I am, like surely people can see this (the entire Artemis project) is an absolute catastrophe waiting to happen, the complexity of this is huge, as some retired NASA guys are saying, China's plan is much simpler and much more like the Apollo program.

The people pushing this are focusing on "happy path", an old software term.

Somebody seems to be conflating NASA's SLS with Space X's Starship.

 

I already said I have similar sentiments about Artemis.

But this thread is not about government programs. By bringing up Artemis, you indirectly raised political issues.

Aside from that, here's what I know about the Chinese because I have worked with them:

1. They follow instructions very well.
2. They are not creative problem solvers.
3. They progress by copying the achievements of others.

They are like this probably because they are raised that way: to not have any confidence in their own individualism, and to trust only ideas from authority.

This is a fact. Whether or not their program is successful, it will not be on account of any special Chinese Ingenuity.

You are entitled to those opinions, Griffin spoke about China's plan vs NASA's plan though, it was the plans that were being critiqued not cultures or ethnicities or perceived ethnic/cultural superiorities or inferiorities.

If you believe that "Americans" (Spanish, French, Irish, Italian, English, German - i.e. white Europeans) are somehow superior "races" then say so, get it off your chest so we can get back to the engineering.

 

If you believe that "Americans" (Spanish, French, Irish, Italian, English, German - i.e. white Europeans) are somehow superior "races" then say so, get it off your chest so we can get back to the engineering.

The American Capitalist System is superior to the Chinese Communist System.

Are you happy?

 

The American Capitalist System is superior to the Chinese Communist System.

Are you happy?

I quote your earlier post

 

I quote your earlier post

View attachment 369872

That wasn't up for debate.

It is a demonstrable fact.

 

@Futurist, I regret to inform you that Flight 13 of my Starship, launched by my company SpaceX, failed to explode over my house today.

Emphasis on mine.

I know you were hoping that the number 13 would be lucky for you, resulting in mass destruction and significant loss of life. It didn't happen.

Sorry. Maybe next time.

 

@Futurist, I regret to inform you that Flight 13 of my Starship, launched by my company SpaceX, failed to explode over my house today.

Emphasis on mine.

I know you were hoping that the number 13 would be lucky for you, resulting in mass destruction and significant loss of life. It didn't happen.

Sorry. Maybe next time.

Whatever you say Elon.

 

Whatever you say Elon.

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me, Mao!

 

I just don't think the LOOP will ever be practical. It's Boring. Potentially good ideas fail all the time because people just don't like it.

 

I just don't think the LOOP will ever be practical. It's Boring. Potentially good ideas fail all the time because people just don't like it.

I don't think public transportation in the US will ever be practical.

But that doesn't keep us from trying.

 

@Futurist, I regret to inform you that Flight 13 of my Starship, launched by my company SpaceX, failed to explode over my house today.

Emphasis on mine.

I pay tax too you know, most Americans have contributed to the development of the Starship HLS project.

You bought stock in SpaceX so what you spent is going into paying off pre-existing debts and AI datacenters not spaceships, now if you want to invest in AI, buying SpaceX stock really isn't the best way to go about it.

 

I pay tax too you know, most Americans have contributed to the development of the Starship HLS project.

Sorry, you get no equity.

Your money was stolen.

 

I just don't think the LOOP will ever be practical. It's Boring. Potentially good ideas fail all the time because people just don't like it.

I would love one from my house to my office.