The decline of Sears Holdings

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,272
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/news/companies/sears-sales-plunge-cost-cuts/index.html
Sears is scrambling to raise cash and cut costs after an absolutely miserable holiday season.
Sales at Sears and Kmart stores plunged during November and December. At stores open at least 12 months, sales fell between 16% and 17%. It only adds to worries that Sears can't stay in business much longer.
...
Lambert admitted the company's partners don't think Sears can compete much longer, and that negative outlook is putting Sears at a competitive disadvantage. For example, some vendors are demanding Sears pay them cash -- that way, they won't be on the hook if Sears files for bankruptcy.
The good news, not all stores are dying.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/09/investing/target-holiday-sales-kohls/index.html?iid=EL
On Monday, rival Kohl's (KSS) said that it, too, enjoyed healthy growth in the fourth quarter. And Macy's (M) and JCPenney (JCP), two retailers that have really struggled lately, surprised Wall Street last week with better sales, though their outlooks aren't fantastic.

The results from Target and Kohl's suggest there is life in retail beyond Amazon.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
And there is a rumor that Amazon might buy Target.

There's rumors Amazons buying everything! :p:D

Give em' 10 more years and they might be able to buy california cheap enough to turn it into their own personal giga production and shipping complex that covers literally everything from one single Amazon owned and controlled location! ;)
 

gerty

Joined Aug 30, 2007
1,305
Back in the 70's I worked as a Rigger/Electrician.. We did a lot of work for Moore Drop
Forge, they manufactured a lot of Craftsman hand tools. The machine that bent the allen wrenches was hypnotizing to watch. The operator would feed the straight, hex blanks into a magazine, the machine would clamp it, wipe form (bend) it then throw it into a bucket placed on the floor in a painted square.
We moved their machinery around to suit their needs.
One epic cluster@#$% was when we tipped over the machine that put that tiny spring loaded ball that holds the socket on an extension. The machine had a reservoir that I believe they deliberately overloaded, tiny little balls everywhere..
The machine itself was a auto feed hydraulic press, with a separate pump unit. Totally unharmed, our ego's however suffered.
Here's who they were..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easco_Hand_Tools
 

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
835
Now that I think of it, I may still have shares in Sears. I'm sure if I cashed it out when I left the Company.

How can I find out if I do or not?

kv
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
How can I find out if I do or not?
Can you recall where the shares were held? I mean, they might have been using an outside firm like Fidelity or Merrill Lynch to manage employee accounts. You'd probably know if this was the case, since these companies are pretty good about contacting clients at least once a year. If this was back in the 80's or earlier, companies used to manage employee accounts internally. I don't think that's legal anymore but it once was and I forget when it changed.

Anyway, I'd start by calling Sears human resources and keeping hammering at them until they help you. It'll probably take a while to find someone that even understands your question.

My bet is that you took care of it at the time and moved on, and just don't recall that detail because of the bigger things a job move brings.
 

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
835
Can you recall where the shares were held? I mean, they might have been using an outside firm like Fidelity or Merrill Lynch to manage employee accounts. You'd probably know if this was the case, since these companies are pretty good about contacting clients at least once a year. If this was back in the 80's or earlier, companies used to manage employee accounts internally. I don't think that's legal anymore but it once was and I forget when it changed.

Anyway, I'd start by calling Sears human resources and keeping hammering at them until they help you. It'll probably take a while to find someone that even understands your question.

My bet is that you took care of it at the time and moved on, and just don't recall that detail because of the bigger things a job move brings.
I was commuting back and forth at the time, I got into an accident and at the time that division was shutting down. They didn't have the room for me in the main office, it was in the 80's I'll bet they tacked it on to my last paycheck internally. Still worth investigation.

kv
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
30,058
Now that I think of it, I may still have shares in Sears. I'm sure if I cashed it out when I left the Company.

How can I find out if I do or not?

kv
I don't have a definitive answer for you, but if you still hold shares then you should still be getting the financial statements that they are required to furnish shareholders every year. If you aren't getting those (unless they don't have your current address), they you probably sold the shares.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
I don't have a definitive answer for you, but if you still hold shares then you should still be getting the financial statements that they are required to furnish shareholders every year. If you aren't getting those (unless they don't have your current address), they you probably sold the shares.
In the old days you could have actually had the stock certificates themselves held for you ... somewhere ... and I'm not sure the broker holding them would have to send you anything. But that may have disappeared before the 80's.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,272
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/14/news/companies/sears-pension-retirees/index.html
What's to blame for the problems at Sears? Amazon? Bad management?
CEO and primary shareholder Eddie Lampert has another idea: It's the company's own retirees.

Sears turned in another bleak quarterly earnings report on Thursday, and Lampert complained about the billions of dollars that Sears owes its former employees through pension plans.
That's it, the people who built the brand are the problem.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,432
It's ironic that a significant part of Sear's failure is that they were done in by internet shopping, the modern version of what made them so great in the beginning, the mail-order catalog.
If they had been smart enough to recognize that catalog shopping could be readily transferred to the internet if done right (not just put a copy of the catalog on-line), they likely would still be a strong company.
Instead they ignored the internet and abandoned the catalog (a couple years before Amazon even started), thinking that their retail stores would be the way to survive. :rolleyes:
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
If they had been smart enough to recognize that catalog shopping could be readily transferred to the internet if done right (not just put a copy of the catalog on-line), they likely would still be a strong company.
To some degree they had the chance when Walmart clobbered them by putting stores in rural and suburban areas. Instead of trying to follow Walmart, they could have become, if not Amazon, at least a major online presence with good brands and an existing service infrastructure. But they seemed to have their feet stuck in the mud.
 

JohnInTX

Joined Jun 26, 2012
4,787
..and they're easy to blame, too. Unfortunately, the blame falls apart when one considers that those pensions were part of the employees' total compensation package and you are left with Lampert's hedge fund doing what they do. I.e. find something with value whether its cash flow, money in the bank or a storied brand. Buy it then attach money-taps onto it that flow to them instead of the business. Sure, brick and mortar retail is under pressure from online outlets. But some are doing OK, they've adapted. Sears could have. In Kenmore, Craftsman, DieHard et. al. they have legendary brands and products. But look at what happened. Sears got bought on the cheap while under pressure. Other than a lame 'shop your way' points-for-loyalty little was done to counter the online guys. But from Eddie's perspective, he gets paid anyway. Despite loaning money to Sears, he also sold lots of their owned real estate and leased it back to Sears. Conveniently, he sold all of it to a real estate outfit that he owned. So when the Sears stores can't pay their rent, he leases or sells to someone else and he gets paid anyway.

Sears has sold off its big brands so there is no longer any reason to go there. You can get Craftsman tools at Ace Hardware. But unlike before, most of it is made in China. So.. if you're going to get Chinese tools, why buy Craftsman? Buy at Harbor Freight and pocket the difference. Call the Snap-On guy for your tools. Sears is over. Sad.

But take a peek at other outfits that are in trouble or are gone. Guitar Center, Toys R Us, Sealy Mattress. Consider: How does a freakin' mattress company get $1B in debt? If you don't know, read up. It's the new American capitalism and it's coming to a store near you.

Sorry but my antagonism comes from growing up and participating in a world where businesses were in business to do business, whatever that was. It worked for a century or more for the Sears' of the world and for a lot of the outfits I worked for in the day. But with the exception of only 2 of mine, out of maybe 20 others, every outfit I worked with got bought by some private equity firm attracted to the money the business made and didn't give a rat's patoot about the business itself. They variously attached to the cash flow or parted it out but in the end, a few guys with money destroyed what lots of good people built and put lots of good people out of work.

IIRC when Sears goes under the remaining 140K are going to be unemployed, off a peak of over 300K, likewise unemployed. Their pensions will be jeopardy.

But Eddie will be OK. So don't worry.

Sorry.
Long day.
 
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BobaMosfet

Joined Jul 1, 2009
2,113
I have to disagree with that. It may have been that way around 5 to 10 years ago, but not now. At least not from places like Harbor Freight. Their hand and power tools are of every bit of the same quality as the old Craftsman tools, some even better. And for stuff like sockets they have the same replacement guarantee. Don't know about other places quality though.

I always liked S-K for my sockets and ratchets. The last time I bought a complete inch and metric set. Many of the sockets have cracked. When I took them back to the place I bought them for replacement, they refused. S-K has a new policy that they don't reimburse the seller for warranted items, so sellers now don't exchange tools. Guess who will never buy S-K again?
While I appreciate the sentiment, I would disagree about comparing harbor freight tools with original craftsman- they aren't close. The only out fit that equalled original Craftsman tools was Snap-On. A perfect example is drill-bits. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone today selling drill-bits as good as those made just 20 years ago.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,272

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,272
https://www.wsj.com/articles/sears-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-1539579819


Sears Holdings
SHLD 18.97% Corp. filed early Monday for bankruptcy protection from creditors, marking the collapse of a company that dominated American retailing for much of the 20th century.

The retailer, which sought chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in White Plains, N.Y., reached a deal with its lenders that will allow the 125-year-old company to keep hundreds of its stores open for now.
 
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