The dangers of external pressure

Thread Starter

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/the-dangers-of-external-pressures/

The engineer(uk) put forth the idea that the rush to market is in part, a consumer driven force.

I think it's partially true, but so is the pre-production announcement about the products to whip the consumer into a feeding frenzy.

Pre-production announcing is the domain of marketing. Failure to deliver, for whatever reason, is dropped at the engineers feet.

What say ye
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,932
Too bad product development is not more like winemaking.

We will sell no wine before it's time!

Hmmm. Perhaps there's a reason why Paul Masson doesn't sell any wine at all any more....

(At least I think the winery part of the business went bankrupt and that now all they sell is brandy).
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
21,094
Hmmm. Perhaps there's a reason why Paul Masson doesn't sell any wine at all any more....

(At least I think the winery part of the business went bankrupt and that now all they sell is brandy).
I think it is common in the wine industry to be very deliberate about what gets sold and when.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Pre-production announcing is the domain of marketing. Failure to deliver, for whatever reason, is dropped at the engineers feet.

What say ye
I see that problem in so many now old designs of machinery of all sorts.

They got it 95% or better of the way to having been something that could have become the most revolutionary machine of its day but cut the corners on the last less than 5% of the details of the design or construction and it ended up giving their product and design a bad reputation for all eternity.

I have a old Thermodynamics Stack Pak plasma cutter rig I use all the time which in its day is one of those machines that made it the 95+% point of having become a industry benchmark design but largely flopped due to simple cheap and totally lame choices in the final design.

They were designed as a modular expandable plasma cutter rig where a guy bought a control pack head unit and one 35 amp power supply but at any time could add up to 3 more 35 amp power supplies plus larger torch units just by stacking them like lego bricks. Plug and play simple expansion to adapt the base unit to larger work as the customer could afford to add on to it. They even had auxiliary inputs so that they could be setup to work with CNC plasma torch systems using simple variable voltage and dry contact based remote control that was and still is a configurable auxiliary output standard in most CNC torch table control systems today. :cool:

What went wrong? Made the whole frigging body out of a machine that was built specifically to work in a large metal cutting environment as a rough service role around rig out of crappy thin brittle plastics is what. Damn things fell apart or got holes melted in them then shorted out. Worst part is the body of each unit was made from four simple panels that could have easily been stamped out of steel sheet to make a bullet proof body design.

99% of the way to having set themselves up to be an industry design standard only to have lost it because they stuck the design a crappy plastic box to save $20 on their manufacturing of a multi thousand dollar device. :mad:
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,495
Pre-production announcing is the domain of marketing.
People in Marketing are ... people ... and often make mistakes under pressure as well. Any sane marketer remembers not to announce something they can't deliver, while at the same time engaging customers in discussions about potential projects. But having a VP or the board of directors breathing down your neck can skew your professionalism.

The financial guys know they can't speak outside of a box or the SEC will be all over them. Marketing guys have a little more rope to hang themselves with.
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
From the link in post #1:
"My assumption is that consumer pressure lies at the heart of it, either through a higher expectation held by the end user or a corporate belief that in order to gain sales the specification for a new product has to verge on the ludicrous."

My assumption is that corporate greed lies at the heart of it. Engineers design the product to function properly and survive daily use, then it is run through Computer Aided (removal of excess quality) Design, then somebody with a degree in Art or English Literature removes some more quality, then it goes to production. What's the mystery?
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,495
Consumers are not blameless, though. People will reliably buy the cheapest crap available in the market. Offering them quality at a higher price can be successful (profitable), but in the meanwhile you'll watch market share go to the cheapest seller regardless of quality. A lot of the crap I see in stores shouldn't even exist, IMHO. It borders on fraud against the consumers that aren't smart enough to understand the value of quality.
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
you'll watch market share go to the cheapest seller
Corporate greed? Blame the victim?
Corporation: Gimee gimee gimee market share fast! Cash flow NOW! Sell them cheap crap because cash flow!!!
Customers: Duh...pretty.:) Oops. I made the manufacturer design this to fail, and I don't even have an engineering degree.:(

Well...if you want to design for the idiots, does that mean you can blame the idiots for your design choices?
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
9,155
It is not always external pressure, depending on your use of the word "external". Groupthink is just as dangerous. Has anyone read the case study of the Challenger disaster? Classic!
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
Groupthink: A (mostly) closed system that feeds on its own imagination. There is a tendency to drift farther from reality, the longer the system is isolated from external forces.
NASA: "The engineers don't know how many seals this thing needs."
IBM: "Nobody will pay for a personal computer."
A&M Records: "The Carpenters music isn't commercial."
Most British Publishing Companies: "Harry Potter will never sell."
and dozens more.:D
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,220
My take (from experience): you don't know your product is foolproof until you get it in the hands of fools.

And beta testers are no fools, unfortunately.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I see too much of it being driven by the mentality that being first to market is more valuable than being best in market.

It's like dealing with people who think getting the job done, but done poorly or wrong because they cut corners and rushed, is more important then getting it done right. :mad:
 
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