Tankless, instant hot water heater

Status
Not open for further replies.

Thread Starter

jjj

Joined Feb 25, 2007
116
I just wrote to the seller and they offered me money back. I already lost $60 on shipping. That means if I send it back, I have lost $120 for "nothing". Since I bought their in good faith, I asked them to at least pay the return shipping and I the will have to put up with the $60 loss. Fair enough or should I "open a PayPal dispute" and claim all shipping costs ??
Besides, I sent them the address of this thread, so that they accept my innocence is this (trap) deal. I'll let you know how it will end... for you good people deserve to know that your efforts were not in vain. 1000 thanks for your contribution... and saving my life. :)
I truly trusted their advertisement; I mean they claim having "40 years of experience. Retails for $89 at Stores, Check out our feedback from satisfied customers! You are buying the world famous ELECTRIC SHOWER HEAD TANKLESS HOT WATER HEATER" etc.
That's how I got trapped!! Silly, gullible me! I'm only glad I did the test in the yard and not in this electrocuting shower...
 

marshallf3

Joined Jul 26, 2010
2,358
If you paid via a credit card file the complaint through them, they should be a lot faster at getting your money back than PayPal would be.

Trust me, a few carefully worded and illustrated letters should get some official opinions very quickly as well.

I can see where they might think the circuit is safe because the path of least resistance from the hot legs to ground would be through the heating element itself, but what if one opens up?
 

sceadwian

Joined Jun 1, 2009
499
The chances of getting your money back are nearly zero. You can buy anything you want, there's no certification that it's legal to actually USE the product anywhere (unless I missed it) and there is generally no requirement for a company to tell you that it's use might be illegal unless the specifically state that it is, which they didn't.

In use if properly installed despite all the paranoia to the contrary the chances of fatal electrocution aren't as high as you might think, that being said I wouldn't use it.
 

tom66

Joined May 9, 2009
2,595
It is disturbing that this is allowed to be sold. It is extremely unsafe; it is just waiting for a lawsuit.

The thing that made me laugh was this:
With remarkable electronic technology that requires the outstanding Coral heater saves up to 25% in electic bills.
How does a heater save energy?

Actually, that raises an interesting question. How efficient is an average heating element? I'm guessing nearly 98-99% efficient; very little extra energy is wasted; some might be as light and as mechanical force. Also, some might go to electrocuting whoever decides to touch it.
 
Last edited:

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
A heating element fully immersed in water is as close to 100% efficient in converting electrical energy to heat as it is possible to get. Only losses back through the copper wires pull heat out of the tank.

The efficiency claim comes from the reasoning that a tank heater loses heat through the insulation all the time. A tankless heater only heats the water at time of use, and so minimizes the loss inherent in keeping a large mass of water above ambient.

So goes the claim. I seem to recall a study that found this is not really the case. What does it matter? - a dead user can't file a claim for less than promised efficiency.
 

sceadwian

Joined Jun 1, 2009
499
Tom, who are they going to sue? The actual maker of the module is probably shielded under so many layers of bills of sale there's no way to prove anything.

Tom, tankless water heaters don't have to keep a tank of water heated they're designed to heat water on demand, the insulation loss for a common hot water heater is where the instant heaters save money. And the savings aren't bloated they can really save that much unless you're using hot water ALL the time.
 

tom66

Joined May 9, 2009
2,595
OK, I was just curious how it could save energy. But that makes sense.

Even if the manufacturer is not going to be sued, distributors could have their neck on the line, for "knowingly distributing a dangerous product" or something like that. I'm sure they would pass the buck pretty quickly then.
 

sceadwian

Joined Jun 1, 2009
499
Find the distributor.. They're often sold directly by the maker. Prove knowingly distributing a dangerous product, considering the product can be safely used under a wide variety of circumstances if not legally at the point of sale. They're not logo tested or certificated for use in a location.

Caveat emptor.
 

someonesdad

Joined Jul 7, 2009
1,583
I think they should rebrand this thing as the "Marriage Shower Head". Then they can legitimately claim that it can get you into hot water in more than one way.
 

Thread Starter

jjj

Joined Feb 25, 2007
116
Today I got a message from the technical support of this dangerous water heater:

"These units are very safe if properly installed, there are thousands installed for over 40 years and not a single casualty.
Your local water probably has a high mineral water an conductivity, however please try the following:
Do not use a circuit breaker with residual current protection as this will shutoff the unit., USE NORMAL CIRCUIT BREAKER 20 AMPS
and Ground the Unit.
You should only detect about 30 to 36 volts between the running hot water and the tap/
Try with another unit"

How should I respond to their letter? As a reply I prepared something like this, but maybe you have a more professional reply and so, I better wait and send the reply tomorrow (Monday 15th):
"Yesterday I called my electrician, who installed the whole electrical wiring and he explained to me: that the RCD is tripping for a good reason. I should not put my hand anywhere near that water because I could end up dead! The reason they're meant to be earthed is for safety, so that if a fault develops the current has somewhere to go. There obviously is a fault, because as soon as you connect it to earth the RCD trips. If there wasn't a fault, I would measure 0v between the water & copper pipe.
Thus, I am seriously compromised and don't dare to ask him to remove the RCD. He also mentioned that if for any reason the ground wire comes off, I won't survive the shower. Therefore, this water heater is in deed life threatening.
I have an installed Chinese tankless, instant hot water unit and no such problem with it. I trusted your product to be equally safe, but as it turns out it's not the case. Please be so kind to compensate me for the shipping losses".
 
Last edited:

Jaguarjoe

Joined Apr 7, 2010
767
Somebody should inform eBay they are allowing widow makers to be sold on their site.

Here's one I found googling around:

http://tinyurl.com/ykgo68c

The specs for this unit includes one for water resistivity. How the average shower head installing fitter/electrician will know what the resistivity of his water is, is beyond me.
 
Last edited:

marshallf3

Joined Jul 26, 2010
2,358

Your local water probably has a high mineral water an conductivity, however please try the following:
Do not use a circuit breaker with residual current protection as this will shutoff the unit., USE NORMAL CIRCUIT BREAKER 20 AMPS
and Ground the Unit.
You should only detect about 30 to 36 volts between the running hot water and the tap/
Try with another unit"


My copies of the NEC are at work, however if I recall where water, electricity and people are mixed a GFCI breaker is usually required.

30 - 36V between the water and the tap? If by "tap" they mean the water faucet don't expect me to be turning the thing on and off.
 

marshallf3

Joined Jul 26, 2010
2,358
I'll have an answer soon enough. I'm a member of a forum that's limited to licensed electrical journeymen and brought this to their attention, I'll bring some of the replies back over here.

I would link you to the forum but those guys are extremely picky about non-licensed people even reading through it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top