The net result of any process or circuitry will be to produce less power out than was put in. If y'all insist that working with FEMTOWATTS is a worthwhile enterprise then by all means knock yourselves out and don't let me dissuade you from doing so. Just don't ever say you weren't warned.

 

Thank you Ron, for the lead! It is helpful when one understands why the circle will fit into the SQUARE but the circle can also when appropriately sized can also allow the SQUARE to fit inside the circle.

Also of notable interest I was a project manager working with a roadside reinforcement operation about 6 years ago we were stabilizing a road which was built atop a old wash pond from a sand and gravel operation in the late 1900's on the side of a mountain Northern Pennsylvania near New Jersey, we were Drilling on a slope adjacent to the area that fell; the entire road pretty much sank into the mountain side thus blowing out the toe of the slope 20' down the embankment from where the road originally started elevation wise (I know your thinking what the hell does this have to do with the conversation... let me finish as details are of importance to what we saw at this particular site) so the solution was to drive 1441 steel casing 8" od × 0.750" wall in at 4' spacing along the road hillside x 40' deep [2] 20's welded together with 0.125" 1018 arc rod. The casing minimum reveal was 6" from the surface. We welded 1" x 8' x 6' plates to these casings so that 2 casings were fastened to each plate after 4 of these units were assembled we started having issues with the drills particularly on the computer controller side and had to switch from remote control to manual to continue there is 1600' of these assemblies installed at this location next we used a grout pump to inject each case via a tremmi tube to force the grout from the bottom to the top under pressure to form a lollipop on the end of the case. Next we connected the plates together with fiberglass rebar and a ground ring zinc coated copper 0.50"dia was embedded in the area around the plates. Following the installation of the grounding ring is where things got weird, we poured the containment wall atop the fiberglass cage and ground ring the concrete was a special mix that contained #300 mesh Aluminum powder to react with the lime and generate hydrogen gas I believe which in turn caused the concrete to heat up and foam up similar to spray foam this was an intentional response what was weird was the following day when we went down to strip the forms off, anything that was made of iron/steel had vibrated when placed onto the foam concrete structure and where the joints exist below the poor is a stranger phenomenon yet when you place a aluminum/brass wrench atop at these joint locations the wrench vibrates and turns slowly back and forth as though someone is turning it on the surface... Naturally I tried other experiments while I was there too. Next there was a class triple A super A cap poured on top to protect the superlight retaining wall below and cast into this section is a epoxy coated steel rear cage with guide rail plates attached. And also the road was eventually finished with many unforeseen events and issues alike. With the cap in place the strange magnetic fields seemed to subside atop the structure however other oddities arose.

The mention of the water pipe triggered the memory of this strange and unique job

Ahh, Yes the Joule Theif a project which stemmed from this site.

The net result of any process or circuitry will be to produce less power out than was put in. If y'all insist that working with FEMTOWATTS is a worthwhile enterprise then by all means knock yourselves out and don't let me dissuade you from doing so. Just don't ever say you weren't warned.

In my original thoughts I was going for an array type of concept but I had not mentioned that in my initial post, I was and still remain to think that it can be done especially with the emergance of graphene and the simplicity of its manufacture one can apply it as bothersome the antenna as well as the storage battery and in large numbers as well as a significantly small footprint I think it would be feasible to try as an experiment. Moreover based on answers I received from the post it is indeed a potential source however what minimal circuitry which draws the least seems to be the standing question.

 

No, it's not. The energy required for the physical line impedance is stored in this 'near' field (like a unloaded transformer secondary). It's not like far field radiation from a transmitter distant from the receiver. Any local reactive field tapped will be supplied with real energy that would normally be sent to consumers. The var losses are from real resistance mainly from the 'extra' current needed to build the reactive fields in the power lines. The energy in the reactive field not lost from resistance just circulates round and round without dissipating.

In other words , bringing a coil close (10 meters) to power lines and extracting power , would cause the generating station to see an increase impedance on their transmition lines ... they would have to send more power to compensate for the loss.

 

It's not 'free', that would be stealing.

I know it would be illegal. As would using a tuned circuit to extract energy from an RF transmitter, as energy rather than a signal voltage. It would probably be fairly easy for the energy company to prosecute as the evidence would readily be there if done on a large scale.

Perhaps of more concern though to most people, and well known to listeners of low, medium and HF radio is the illegal fields produced by some modern electronic equipment. Maybe not quite for this thread as the level such energy is not great (it just really being the frequency distribution). Just a pain to live with! An interesting thought though as to whether it is more an issue to sap energy from an illegal field than to produce it in the first place lol.

Tracy

 

I have also heard from my professors that collecting free energy is impossible.
It would be better to build your own hybrid system: wind generator/photovoltaic panel and if you add a little more like energy efficiency and a solar panel you will get a very good result.

Building a generator by yourself is rather hard, but if you managed to do it, you will only need the materials and tools.

 

In other words , bringing a coil close (10 meters) to power lines and extracting power , would cause the generating station to see an increase impedance on their transmition lines ... they would have to send more power to compensate for the loss.

I wouldn't call it an absolute increase in impedance. The real (resistive) element in the complex impedance at the location of the tapping coil increases causing real power dissipation (to your load) at that point instead of just energy storage.

 

I know it would be illegal. As would using a tuned circuit to extract energy from an RF transmitter, as energy rather than a signal voltage. It would probably be fairly easy for the energy company to prosecute as the evidence would readily be there if done on a large scale.

On the legality of tapping broadcast far field (electrically distant electromagnetic waves vs local sources and currents reactive electromagnetic fields) ambient RF radiation, it's pretty clearly legal (that's the point of the broadcast) as long as no 'harmful interference' happens to the desired receivers of the broadcast.

The best you can hope for is a few microwatts-per-square-centimeter with actual results being much less.

 

This is something I've been actively researching for BLE sensor power (Thermal Energy Harvesting) for long-term and real-time machine condition monitoring.

https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/18/12/4113/htm

 

Thanks for sharing that paper, pretty good read.

Ron

 

Thanks for sharing that paper, pretty good read.

Ron

Need to reduce catastrophic failures of vacuum systems that can result in large repair bills by vibration and heat analysis of high kinetic energy components during operation. The plan is to generate controller power from mechanical pump motor heat, use that power to enable BLE connected vibration, acoustic and heat sensors on Maglev turbo molecular pumps that can signal the main control system to safe the vacuum system before it explodes like this.

Pump mount plate.

I'm trying to see if a precursor signal pattern can be detected to a high probability at least 60 seconds before destruction but I expect only a few seconds at the most.

 

Need to reduce catastrophic failures of vacuum systems that can result in large repair bills by vibration and heat analysis of high kinetic energy components during operation. The plan is to generate controller power from mechanical pump motor heat, use that power to enable BLE connected vibration, acoustic and heat sensors on Maglev turbo molecular pumps that can signal the main control system to safe the vacuum system before it explodes like this.

Pump mount plate.

I'm trying to see if a precursor signal pattern can be detected to a high probability at least 60 seconds before destruction but I expect only a few seconds at the most.

I had a similar nemesis in a device we called a Chem Pump. The pumps we used cost just over a hundred grand, a rework cost about twenty grand using available rework kits but if one crashed we were looking at about sixty grand. The units are, as the link mentioned, canned. They pumped grade A water with about a 2,000 PSI blanket of nitrogen at about 600 degrees F. Predicting a failure was a PITA to say the least. Each pump was instrumented with 5 thermocouples and then we added 3 accelerometers. Gave the pump a normal run and started collecting baseline data to establish high limits for vibration. I got pretty good at determining mean failure times. The problem was all three accelerometers plus 5 thermocouples were wired and using 8 Analog Input channels of data acquisition. I never saw a way to make the sensors remote and self powered. The accelerometers were either B&K or Endevco with charge amplifiers. Not the sort of stuff you buy on Amazon.

While stopping a hot test midway through sucked and required a pile of paper work it did save big bucks. A normal hot test ran 48 to 72 hours depending on what product we were testing. The idea was to accurately guess looking at run time hours on the pump and where my last vibe limits were to know enough to swap out a pump before a major impeller crash. The accelerometers were the real help. Once I collected enough baseline data we got real good at predicting failure.

While wireless self powered is sweet I doubt we would ever get there mostly because wireless anything is a big not going to happen because of the data being transmitted. I still enjoyed reading the white paper though.

Ron

 

Interesting, what is it that you were testing Ron?

 

In other words , bringing a coil close (10 meters) to power lines and extracting power , would cause the generating station to see an increase impedance on their transmition lines ... they would have to send more power to compensate for the loss.

Hahaha, yepper

Hahaha, yepper

They will likely send the drone to see what is going on

Need to reduce catastrophic failures of vacuum systems that can result in large repair bills by vibration and heat analysis of high kinetic energy components during operation. The plan is to generate controller power from mechanical pump motor heat, use that power to enable BLE connected vibration, acoustic and heat sensors on Maglev turbo molecular pumps that can signal the main control system to safe the vacuum system before it explodes like this.

Pump mount plate.

I'm trying to see if a precursor signal pattern can be detected to a high probability at least 60 seconds before destruction but I expect only a few seconds at the most.

How about a Veeco Vapor Rocket or a diff ion pump

Need to reduce catastrophic failures of vacuum systems that can result in large repair bills by vibration and heat analysis of high kinetic energy components during operation. The plan is to generate controller power from mechanical pump motor heat, use that power to enable BLE connected vibration, acoustic and heat sensors on Maglev turbo molecular pumps that can signal the main control system to safe the vacuum system before it explodes like this.

Pump mount plate.

I'm trying to see if a precursor signal pattern can be detected to a high probability at least 60 seconds before destruction but I expect only a few seconds at the most.

Looks like you're burnouts get pretty intense too

Or

Looks like you're burnouts get pretty intense too

Or Burn-in I should say

I know it would be illegal. As would using a tuned circuit to extract energy from an RF transmitter, as energy rather than a signal voltage. It would probably be fairly easy for the energy company to prosecute as the evidence would readily be there if done on a large scale.

Perhaps of more concern though to most people, and well known to listeners of low, medium and HF radio is the illegal fields produced by some modern electronic equipment. Maybe not quite for this thread as the level such energy is not great (it just really being the frequency distribution). Just a pain to live with! An interesting thought though as to whether it is more an issue to sap energy from an illegal field than to produce it in the first place lol.

Tracy

The water hole

 

Interesting, what is it that you were testing Ron?

We manufactured and tested devices called a CRDM (Control Rod Drive Mechanism) which controls the position of the control rods in the core of a nuclear reactor. They make for a pretty interesting unique piece of hardware. Literally hundreds of sensors are used in the process to record data ranging from acoustics, pressures, flow rates, temperatures and more. The sensors are also used to control the test process. The reactors, in our case were PWR (Pressurized Water Reactor) systems.

Ron

 

Ah, no wonder then that the crazy temperature, pressure and water reminded me of those

 

Ah, no wonder then that the crazy temperature, pressure and water reminded me of those

Then you know the drill.

Ron