Spitting Cyclops water level control

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
Please help with my spitting Cyclops!
I bought 2 different Non contact liquid level sensors. I want to run a water pump to keep a container full of water. I will need one of these water level sensors to turn the pump on when the level drops. My small fountain pump is 24v and I think it pulls about 1 amp or less.
My water level sensors from Robotshop.com are the RB-Dfr-396 and the othef is the Rb-Dfr-694. Please tell me what relay I might need for my project. My robot does have available DC power of 5v and 12v and 24v My pump runs on 24v also which level sensor should I use? Thank you!
 

mcgyvr

Joined Oct 15, 2009
5,394
You need to provide us with more information..
Does your robot have a microprocessor/controller like an Arduino or similar with 2 available digital inputs?
If so you simply attach the 5V and ground wires of the sensor to 5V and ground and each "OUT" of the sensors to a digital input and read them and turn a relay on..
Surely your robot has other relays that you might be able to use/match right?
 

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
You need to provide us with more information..
Does your robot have a microprocessor/controller like an Arduino or similar with 2 available digital inputs?
If so you simply attach the 5V and ground wires of the sensor to 5V and ground and each "OUT" of the sensors to a digital input and read them and turn a relay on..
Surely your robot has other relays that you might be able to use/match right?
You need to provide us with more information..
Does your robot have a microprocessor/controller like an Arduino or similar with 2 available digital inputs?
If so you simply attach the 5V and ground wires of the sensor to 5V and ground and each "OUT" of the sensors to a digital input and read them and turn a relay on..
Surely your robot has other relays that you might be able to use/match right?
Thanks Mcgyvr, I do not have any available inputs or outputs.
My 2 controllers are Fright Ideas BooBox controllers. All 8 inputs are designed to trigger recorded shows. If I were to use one of them then each time the liquid level sensor sent a signal it would stop what ever show was playing. Do I need to add an arduino or similar? One of my 2 liquid sensors says can trigger a relay directly.
I think it puts out about 100 miliamps.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,852
What? Watching TV and monitoring water level in a pond? I'm having trouble reconciling the two. I'm guessing others here may as well.

What I'm seeing in my mind's eye is a pond or fountain or something with a water level. When the level drops it turns a pump on to top it off. Once topped off it shuts down. You really don't need a micro controller solution for that, but you can certainly go that route if you wish. But where the TV comes into play - - - ? ? ?
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,167
What is needed is a 24 volt coil relay with 2 poles normally open. One set of contacts in series with the relay coil, with the low level normally open switch across those contacts. That energises and latches the relay on at the low level. The normally closed level switch in series with the relay coil supply, so when the level reaches the high point the relay releases. The second set of contacts controls the power to the pump.
Why would anybody ever consider using an arduino for such a simple control function??? That makes no sense at all, because it would use two inputs plus one output and still require the relay for switching.
 

ebeowulf17

Joined Aug 12, 2014
3,307
Guys, I think the microcontroller question was raised because this was described as a "robot," and most modern "robot" projects have a microcontroller. If you ALREADY have a microcontroller in your project, then having it also control water levels is a no-brainer. No one suggested adding a new microcontroller just for water level control. Call off the dogs.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,167
Most robotic projects use most of the controller I/O, which is the reason to use a simple version of the ancient two-button start-stop circuit. The other reason to consider it is that after a power interruption it defaults to the off mode until it gets restarted. I did not intend to come across as harsh, but really, since the relay is needed anyway, adding a second contact is the really cheap way to go, plus, it keeps relay and motor noise away from any processor that may be involved. And some of my very best friends have been dogs.
 

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
Most robotic projects use most of the controller I/O, which is the reason to use a simple version of the ancient two-button start-stop circuit. The other reason to consider it is that after a power interruption it defaults to the off mode until it gets restarted. I did not intend to come across as harsh, but really, since the relay is needed anyway, adding a second contact is the really cheap way to go, plus, it keeps relay and motor noise away from any processor that may be involved. And some of my very best friends have been dogs.
I have been running a simple on and off float switch with a relay to power the small fountain pump. Now I want to put spaghetti in my air pressurized water chamber so that my Cyclops can spit various food scraps.
The float switch will get stuck on or off with junk so I am installing a non contact liquid sensor on the outside of the chamber.
This sensor needs to be controlled so it can power my pump.
 

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
I have been running a simple on and off float switch with a relay to power the small fountain pump. Now I want to put spaghetti in my air pressurized water chamber so that my Cyclops can spit various food scraps.
The float switch will get stuck on or off with junk so I am installing a non contact liquid sensor on the outside of the chamber.
This sensor needs to be controlled so it can power my pump.
https://www.facebook.com/Samscrazycreatures/posts/2247026575309296
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,852
All 8 inputs are designed to trigger recorded shows. If I were to use one of them then each time the liquid level sensor sent a signal it would stop what ever show was playing.
Stop whatever show is playing? That has me confused.

OK, maybe off track here, but if something were set up to spit food or other junk - perhaps air pressure driven water would be more suitable to what you want to design or build - or modify. For now all I see is two thoughts: One is to keep a reservoir stocked. The other is spitting food. Trying to reconcile the two is enough to think about. But playing a show? That sounds like a TV or monitor is involved somehow. Well, perhaps a light show maybe.

If you could describe a little more detail of what you have in mind, someone might come up with a novel idea.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,167
OK, then the non-contact external level sensor can control relays, one for the high level and one for the low level. No problem at all, in fact probably simpler.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,852
Several years back I gave HHO a try. Had my main reservoir and reactor and a side tank with a floating magnet inside. On the outside was a small reed switch to sense when the magnet was near. One switch would turn the pump on and the other would turn it off. Kept the reservoir full to a level where I wanted it. Did it with the reed switches and a couple transistors, and a handful of other things like resistors and capacitors. Didn't want splashing to cause false triggers, so caps were necessary. Worked like a champ. The HHO never gave me anything I didn't already have. Well, actually, I did have a headache for a while. But my wallet was a bit lighter.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,167
Probably anything like food scraps would jam any reasonably sized valve, so you should stick with the pump concept. OR use the valve to control air blowing out the water. But then you will need a source of compressed air. Also, the response times would change with the level of stuff in the tank, which may not be what you want. This does indeed sound like quite a project, and so a more complete explanation would not only allow for more helpful assistance, but also encourage more creative suggestions. Several folks around here seem to be quite creative.
 

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
Probably anything like food scraps would jam any reasonably sized valve, so you should stick with the pump concept. OR use the valve to control air blowing out the water. But then you will need a source of compressed air. Also, the response times would change with the level of stuff in the tank, which may not be what you want. This does indeed sound like quite a project, and so a more complete explanation would not only allow for more helpful assistance, but also encourage more creative suggestions. Several folks around here seem to be quite creative.
Yes you got it right. 7 gallon water cantainer pumps water into an ABS chamber. Air is blasted into the chamber forcing the water and barf up the 1 inch esophagus.
Then the chamber refills. A one way check valve keeps anything from forcing back to the pump.
Here is a link to some of my madness:
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,167
OK, so really you only need a single sensor to stop the fill when the level rises to some point. You know that after each firing it needs to be refilled some. That makes the task a bit simpler. So really, operation of the air valve could be used to start the pump, and then the sensor would stop the pump when the level came back up. You would also want a small button to initiate a fill cycle when starting from dry. I am still thinking that a small power relay is the best way to control the pump motor because big inrush currents are more easily handled by a relay.. AND they don't need any heat sinks. The same command that opens the air valve can switch on a smaller transistor to energize the relay, and then the level sensor logic can release it. The remaining challenge is understanding how the level sensor that you acquired functions.
 

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
OK, so really you only need a single sensor to stop the fill when the level rises to some point. You know that after each firing it needs to be refilled some. That makes the task a bit simpler. So really, operation of the air valve could be used to start the pump, and then the sensor would stop the pump when the level came back up. You would also want a small button to initiate a fill cycle when starting from dry. I am still thinking that a small power relay is the best way to control the pump motor because big inrush currents are more easily handled by a relay.. AND they don't need any heat sinks. The same command that opens the air valve can switch on a smaller transistor to energize the relay, and then the level sensor logic can release it. The remaining challenge is understanding how the level sensor that you acquired functions.
Those are some great Ideas. Thank you.
I will report back in about 3 weeks to let you know how it works out.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,167
I am guessing that the "non-contact liquid sensor" is a device that is more complex than a mechanical switch, and thus has some level of power consumption that is constant. Hopefully the constant power consumption will not be a problem. And hopefully the logic sense will be right for the application. I can see that the implementation will take a fair amount of thinking, that is for sure. So please let us know how you achieve the solution, both for our curiosity and our education, since very few people have ever worked with a barfing robot.
 

Thread Starter

Samatronics

Joined May 6, 2018
8
I am guessing that the "non-contact liquid sensor" is a device that is more complex than a mechanical switch, and thus has some level of power consumption that is constant. Hopefully the constant power consumption will not be a problem. And hopefully the logic sense will be right for the application. I can see that the implementation will take a fair amount of thinking, that is for sure. So please let us know how you achieve the solution, both for our curiosity and our education, since very few people have ever worked with a barfing robot.
I will definitely let everyone know of the final product and might need more input to get there.
 
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