[solved] GFCI outlet doesn't work after I press Reset&Test; turn on&off circuit breaker; unscrew

Thread Starter

bigrobot

Joined Feb 19, 2017
40
No, when they fail you replace the whole assembly. Make sure the Line and Neutral feeding the outlet are working correctly. Meaning if this outlet is on a fuse or breaker make sure that power is being supplied to the GFCI before replacing the GFCI. Anyway, when they failk they fail and you replace the unit with a known good new unit. Here in the US the common flavors are either 15 Amp or 20 Amp service. What you have should be labeled and I suggest replace with the same rating.

Ron
Thanks, Ron.

I feel so so so so very bad that I had to play around with the Test/Rest buttons. But before we replace the entire thing, are we sure that we found the problem? Are we sure it's not wiring issues? (I didn't fiddle with wires, mind you, aside from maybe elongating it a bit, as I took out the GFCI from its hole and looked at all sides).
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,501
Are we sure it's not wiring issues?
This is why I stressed:
Make sure the Line and Neutral feeding the outlet are working correctly. Meaning if this outlet is on a fuse or breaker make sure that power is being supplied to the GFCI before replacing the GFCI.
If you have a handy little multi meter check that there is power to the GFCI outlet. Simply measure across the "line" labeled terminals of the GFCI outlet. If there is power to the GFCI and when something known good is plugged into it and fails to work that is a good indicator the GFCI outlet is bad. Note the wide range of prices these things sell for. Also note my earlier comment as to 15 or 20 Amp service.

Ron
 

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
Thanks, Ron.

I feel so so so so very bad that I had to play around with the Test/Rest buttons. But before we replace the entire thing, are we sure that we found the problem? Are we sure it's not wiring issues? (I didn't fiddle with wires, mind you, aside from maybe elongating it a bit, as I took out the GFCI from its hole and looked at all sides).
Don't feel bad. You didn't do anything "wrong". GFCI should be tested every 3 months. If they fail after testing means the unit is at the end of its life. Replace it. It is a consumable item.

It was better that you tested it and it stopped working than the other result... That is, if You didn't test it and it didn't work to save your life when you needed it to. Also, if the GFCI failed to save your live one day, I doubt it would be thinking, I feel so so so so very bad.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
10,153
Do you have more than one GFIC protected outlet in the house? If so, the problem might be with a different outlet.

I had a house that had three GFIC protected outlets in three different rooms. One is the master outlet that contains the GFIC circuit and the other two leeched power from the master. When any outlet experienced a fault (or tripped because of lightning) all three went off.
 

Lumenosity

Joined Mar 1, 2017
614
I have a GFCI outlet that needs to be replaced. For a while it began to pop more frequently. Now it just doesn't work. It seems if they get tripped enough they go bad. I can't recall now why I even used a GFCI outlet. It's in the garage. Will probably replace it with a standard outlet.
 

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
I have a GFCI outlet that needs to be replaced. For a while it began to pop more frequently. Now it just doesn't work. It seems if they get tripped enough they go bad. I can't recall now why I even used a GFCI outlet. It's in the garage. Will probably replace it with a standard outlet.
Don't replace with standard outlet. All locations where there is a chance of water on the floor should be GFCI outlets (or the outlet closest to the breaker should be GFCI protected and wired to insure all downstream outlets are protected by the GFCI. ). The electric code is there to protect you and your family and your house.
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,501
I have a GFCI outlet that needs to be replaced. For a while it began to pop more frequently. Now it just doesn't work. It seems if they get tripped enough they go bad. I can't recall now why I even used a GFCI outlet. It's in the garage. Will probably replace it with a standard outlet.
GFCI protection is required for outlets installed in:
  • Bathrooms
  • Garages
  • Outdoors
  • Balconies, desks, and porches
  • Kitchen countertops
  • Within 6ft of a sink
  • Laundry areas
  • Within 6ft of a bathtub or shower
Here in the US the NEC (National Electric Code is pretty specific as to where GFCI protection is required and with new construction you can expect the list to grow along with the newer Arc Fault Interrupter requirements. Starting around the NEC code 210.8 they begin to cover GFCI requirements.

I am planning a detached garage this May / June time frame and in the interest of keeping things simple the underground electric feed to the garage will be 240 VAC split phase and all GFCI protected from my breaker panels.

While false tripping can be a PITA the units do save lives. The cheap ones tend to fail more often so just save receipts when purchasing the units. Most false tripping I have seen is a result of moisture building up in outside service outlets where the NMA enclosures have poor or worn seals.

Ron
 

Thread Starter

bigrobot

Joined Feb 19, 2017
40
Do you have more than one GFIC protected outlet in the house? If so, the problem might be with a different outlet.

I had a house that had three GFIC protected outlets in three different rooms. One is the master outlet that contains the GFIC circuit and the other two leeched power from the master. When any outlet experienced a fault (or tripped because of lightning) all three went off.
Yes, there's at least one other GFCI outlet. Are you saying that all GFIC are connected in a way that ordinary outlets are not?
Are you saying that there's a chance that this GFCI outlet I'm complaining about is still usable, and that I just have to press Test or Reset on the other one(s)?
 

Thread Starter

bigrobot

Joined Feb 19, 2017
40
hi ron, i'm reading the replies out of order.
Make sure the Line and Neutral feeding the outlet are working correctly. Meaning if this outlet is on a fuse or breaker make sure that power is being supplied to the GFCI before replacing the GFCI.
How can I determine if the outlet is on a fuse or breaker? I mean to say, there is a circuit breaker panel for the entire house. And if I flick off one switch, the GFCI and everything else in that room would be powered off. That's not what you're talking about, is it?
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
10,153
Yes, there is a chance that your outlet doesn't work because a different one has tripped. The GFCI outlets may be wired differently from "regular" outlets.

I think it is standard that there is a circuit breaker in series with every branch circuit in a building, so it is only prudent that you check the breaker panel to see whether any breakers have tripped.

To be clear, the "Test" button is to trip the GFCI outlet and "Reset" button restores the circuit. Press "Reset" last.
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
7,501
hi ron, i'm reading the replies out of order.


How can I determine if the outlet is on a fuse or breaker? I mean to say, there is a circuit breaker panel for the entire house. And if I flick off one switch, the GFCI and everything else in that room would be powered off. That's not what you're talking about, is it?
Since I haven't seen your house i don't know if power is distributed from a fuse box (older houses still have them) or a circuit breaker panel. Each outlet in the dwelling is fed (powered) by either a fuse or circuit breaker including any GFCI outlets. What I am suggesting is to make sure there is power to the back terminals of the GFCI outlet before changing the GFIC outlet. Make sure the breaker or fuse powering that outlet is in fact good and there is power applied to the back of the GFIC outlet.

GFIC outlets use a mechanical switch to remove power from the outlet side. These mechanical switches can and do fail and plenty have been known to fail during the Test Function. The mechanical switch opens but never actually resets. If the GFCI has power to it. Known power on the rear line terminals but no power out on the front following reset then the unit is faulty. However, if there is no power applied to the GFCI rear terminals then the breaker or fuse powering the GFCI outlet is faulty or tripped. Simply put, make sure there is power to the line side of the GFCI before we call it bad and replace it.

Ron
 

boatsman

Joined Jan 17, 2008
187
Most peculiar. All the GFCIs that I have ever dealt with were in the main fuse box immediately after the main fuse. They are usually 3 phase and have a minimum rating of 3 x 40 Amps at 380 VAC. In older flats they were 2 x 25 A or 2 x 40 A, at 220 volts AC.
 

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
This type is typical in the US but breaker box versions also exist.

Also, Arcfault interrupters are commonly part of the circuitbreaker in the US (and in the main breaker box)

14971946291422101226079.jpg
 

Thread Starter

bigrobot

Joined Feb 19, 2017
40
If you have a handy little multi meter check that there is power to the GFCI outlet. Simply measure across the "line" labeled terminals of the GFCI outlet. If there is power to the GFCI and when something known good is plugged into it and fails to work that is a good indicator the GFCI outlet is bad.
Hi, Ron. The digital multimeter I ordered has finally arrived. It's a DT-830B.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Hh8RFPrVL.jpg

To which point should I be setting the dial to check out GFCI assembly?
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,852
GFCI Post Mortem: Opened one of my failed GFCI outlets. Found a SMD (could have been a diode could have been a transistor or FET of some sort) that had blown its cover. The body of the component was blown open. Something caused it to blow. I suspect it was related to corrosion I also saw inside the unit. Not sure where the corrosion came from but it was localized in one area. Likely the corrosion lead to a short that caused the SMD to blow. It was a three lead component. Obviously I couldn't read the numbers as they were blown away. And the PCB didn't have any silk screening indicating U1 or Q1 or D1, or anything else for that matter.

There are no parts internally you can replace. Even if you had the technology and skill to replace components I wouldn't advise it. The sole purpose of a GFCI is to save your life. Do you want to hang your life or the life of a loved one on something you did a repair on? What if your component was a Chinese Knock-Off part? What if it failed? What if you over heated the part during installation? What if you caused EOS (Electrical Over Stress) (Related to ESD - Electro Static Damage)? Having been in the electronics industry over 30 years I've seen a lot of situations where ESD sensitive components were damaged but not blown out by electro static discharge. But because of the incident (EOS) the component could no longer be depended upon to handle what it was once rated for.

Like so many others have said, make sure the wiring to the outlet is good. If it still does not function then replace the GFCI and be happy it was that simple. No need to make any further issue about it. If the wiring is good and the outlet does not function - replace it.

[edit] Just noticed the dates of posts. Likely by now you've replaced the unit. OR found a problem with the wiring.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,852
To which point should I be setting the dial to check out GFCI assembly?
Set the dial to ACV 200 as is shown in the picture. Connect the test leads as follows: Black wire to the bottom hole labeled "COM-" and the red test lead to VΩmA. NEVER TEST FOR VOLTAGE WITH THE RED LEAD PLUGGED INTO THE 10ADC PORT!
 

Thread Starter

bigrobot

Joined Feb 19, 2017
40
Set the dial to ACV 200 as is shown in the picture. Connect the test leads as follows: Black wire to the bottom hole labeled "COM-" and the red test lead to VΩmA. NEVER TEST FOR VOLTAGE WITH THE RED LEAD PLUGGED INTO THE 10ADC PORT!
And I can and should do this test while the gfci assembly is completely detached from the wall/mains, yes?
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,852
WAIT A MINUTE - You said you're outside the US. If you have 220 line voltage then the meter you show won't successfully test the voltage. You need a meter that can measure up to 600 AC Volts.

If you're dealing with 120 VAC then with the meter set on the 200 scale you can test with the plug in place. Just be careful not to touch the hot wire and ground or neutral at the same time, otherwise you'll get an unpleasant surprise.

On the side of the GFCI should be some screws. You can test for voltage right there. REMEMBER: That meter can only read as high as 200 VAC. To try and use it at 220 (potentially 240 VAC) can harm the meter. Can definitely harm you. But if you're testing a 120 VAC line then the meter will work just fine. You can test with the GFCI in the circuit or with it out of the circuit, doesn't matter. All you're attempting to establish is the presence of voltage. Should be 120 VAC between Hot and Neutral; and should also be 120 VAC between Hot and Ground. There should be NO voltage between Neutral and Ground. Some stray voltage isn't going to be a problem, but if it's above 70 VAC then I'd stop and ask for more help.
 
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