A neon light source opto-coupler may need one or two milliamps at over 70 volts to illuminate. Add a current limiting resistor so it does not fail at 240 volts and that is enough to verify that the gen is spinning, which shows that the engine is running. Task completed.

 

Don't hook to the mains, just use one main to CT.
At 2400 rpm 40Hz the gen might be near 80vac to the CT. Full speed it will be 120vac 60Hz. "rms" volts.

 

What type of gen config does Generac actually use?

The thread starter has one of these.
The PDF file attached.

Now we can all see what's involved. My current one has been running fine for 4 years. My last one ran fine for 11 years. There are other manuals but attached is the basic user manual. One more time I never looked at that voltage on a scope and what I saw was totally erratic between 115 to 125 volts. All over the map and I have no idea what it would have looked like on a scope.

Ron

 

Don't hook to the mains, just use one main to CT.
At 2400 rpm 40Hz the gen might be near 80vac to the CT. Full speed it will be 120vac 60Hz. "rms" volts.

Ifthe generator is not connected to the mains, then there is no current flowing to produce an output from a current sensor of any kind. And, during an exercise the transfer relay does not operate, hence no real current.

 

On a side note Mains power only goes through the transfer switch. A sample of mains 240 VAC is sent to the genset from the transfer switch. The manual I posted as a PDF in Post #123 should have a schematic of the wiring scheme.

Ron

 

I saw neither a circuit diagram of any kind, nor even much discussion about the electrical parts. BUT there was quite a bit of discussion about intake and exhaust valve adjusting. That is not a common engine service activity.

 

Now we can all see what's involved.

Mains are mains, whether it's util mains or gen mains.

I read the PDF. OP's gen does not operate exactly as the PDF says. The exercise profile indicates a 3-step run, 3600 2400 and then 1950 rpm's. But OP said his test showed 40Hz when exercising, which only happens at 2400rpm, so something seems off.

Here's my last suggestion for running or not sensor ($3 in parts, maybe), a contactless solution, you tune the sensitivity accordingly, just tape it to one of the gen main wires in xfer switch box.

Reading 1 - http://amasci.com/emotor/chargdet.html
Reading 2 - http://www.observationsblog.com/sci...nts/-static-electricity-detector-easy-to-make

 

Ifthe generator is not connected to the mains, then there is no current flowing to produce an output from a current sensor of any kind. And, during an exercise the transfer relay does not operate, hence no real current.

@DC_Kid keeps saying "CT" I believe to mean "Center Tap" (neutral). I think you are reading it as "Current Transformer." When I see "CT" I also assume Current Transformer and given the nature of this discussion I think some disambiguation is warranted.

 

@DC_Kid keeps saying "CT" I believe to mean "Center Tap" (neutral). I think you are reading it as "Current Transformer." When I see "CT" I also assume Current Transformer and given the nature of this discussion I think some disambiguation is warranted.

One more reason to avoid acronyms and non-common abbreviations. Sensing the whole voltage assures enough to light a neon bulb for the voltage sensor opto-isolator, and it also verifies that both phases are present, a cheap addition to the report that the generator has started.
As for Generac, I knowtwo folks who have had theirs removed and replaced with a better brand. and reading the manual we got, I do wonder about adjusting the engine valves as part of routine upkeep.

 

replaced with a better brand.

What brand would that be? Generac is the so called gold standard for home generators, I'd like to know what brand is better, thinking of buying a home generator myself.

 

Maybe I missed someone else posting (buy by gosh we're on page 7....), but if you have 120VAC across hots during 1/2 speed test and 240VAC across hots when full speed. Why not simply buy a 5V wall wart that has 100V-240V input with 5V out. Plug in and now you get 5V when generator running.....
https://www.amazon.com/Arkare-100V-...-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

I have solar. Problem with MY solar (likely many have the same arrangement) I need 60Hz from the grid in order for my PV Panels (Photo Voltaic; a.k.a solar panels) to produce. There IS a workaround and that's to disconnect from the grid and then connect to an artificial 60Hz source. That can be from a generator or an inverter. That way I can have power all day long.

Some suggest a battery, but the big and expensive batteries are capable of powering the home for 24 to 48 hours, depending on use. An alternative to that - and one I'm considering investigating - is to get an electric vehicle, one that can power the home. I HAVE HEARD that the Ford Lightning is capable of powering a home for several days (not yet investigated as to how many days constitute "several"). Also heard that the Tesla is specifically designed to NOT backed the home. Obviously I have a lot to learn on the subject, but it's an alternative to using hydrocarbons to power the home.

What does this have to do with sensing when generator is running - nothing. Hence, off topic. But I'm offering this for consideration as to alternatives to the issues of sensing when a generator is running. With the electric cars, you can charge from your solar or from the grid and when the grid fails - your home is still powered for some time.

Regarding the Ford Lighting - I'm not a Ford fan. However, I do know that historically Ford trucks have been of good quality as opposed to their cars. Whether the electric pickup is as good as gas powered - that remains to be seen. But Ford has a good reputation as far as I know. Still, with all the new electronic gadgets, they are experiencing some difficulties worth considering before buying.

 

Maybe I missed someone else posting (buy by gosh we're on page 7....), but if you have 120VAC across hots during 1/2 speed test and 240VAC across hots when full speed. Why not simply buy a 5V wall wart that has 100V-240V input with 5V out. Plug in and now you get 5V when generator running.....
https://www.amazon.com/Arkare-100V-240V-Replacement-Security-Raspberry-Pi/dp/B09W8X9VGK/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3P1CTCBSITBVQ&keywords=5v+1a+power+supply+50v&qid=1697555598&sprefix=5v+1a+power+supply+50v+,aps,44&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

The problem is when the genset id running during a utility power failure / outage that would be fine. The genset outputs240 VAC and about 67 Amps. When the genset is running in an exercise mode that is not the case. On the generator stator out all we see is a floating sort of voltage where L1 to L2 floats around 115 VAC to 125 VAC and I never measured the frequency. The "quiet" exercise mode can be eliminated so in the exercise mode the genset will run at 3600 RPM. The thread starter wants to know how to sense when the genset is running including running in exercise mode.

Maybe a simple SMPS wall wart would work. Most newer ones have an input range of 100 to 250 VAC. I didn't try it.

Ron

 

One more reason to avoid acronyms and non-common abbreviations. Sensing the whole voltage assures enough to light a neon bulb for the voltage sensor opto-isolator, and it also verifies that both phases are present, a cheap addition to the report that the generator has started.
As for Generac, I know two folks who have had theirs removed and replaced with a better brand. and reading the manual we got, I do wonder about adjusting the engine valves as part of routine upkeep.

On that note I figure it this way. You can end up with a lemon in any brand name. Kohler is a good name and a bit more pricey than Generac but even Koehler can produce a lemon. Next when looking at pricing a buyer wants to see if the mating transfer switch is or is not included. The 100 and 200 amp transfer switches don't come cheap. My first Generac ran for about 11 years problem and maintenance free with of course things like oil and air filter changes. When it died I went with another Generac. The first was a good deal on a discontinued model. Check this out.

My first model.

Note the squared corners. The new models have rounded corners.



My old one was a floor model with the square corners. They took $1,000 off because the new models were out. Hell the guts were the same. Anyway what this always comes down to is would I buy another Generac? Yes I would because my experiences have been good.

As to manuals and schematics? Yes, most of the illustrations suck. The service and trouble shooting manuals are better, not great but better. The latter are also much more helpful than the owner's manual.

What? You never adjusted the valve tappets on an engine? That is normal especially on gasoline engines. Well older automotive engines. What's that clicking? That's a loose tappet. Just adjust the valves.

Have to love this country. Don't like a brand? Buy a different brand.

Ron

 

What? You never adjusted the valve tappets on an engine? That is normal especially on gasoline engines.

Well older automotive engines. What's that clicking? That's a loose tappet. Just adjust the valves.

Oh heck yes, I've adjusted valves. Even on some very old lawnmower engines. I say "lawnmower" but I just mean those small gas engines. That goes way back to the 60's and early 70's if I remember right.

 

What brand would that be? Generac is the so called gold standard for home generators, I'd like to know what brand is better, thinking of buying a home generator myself.

That is not what I have heard from a number of folks. In addition, Generac does not have their own installation folks nor local parts availability.
CUMMINS is a larger company that has employees all over and their own stocking warehouse facilities. Cummins is also well known in industry as a reliable company with reliable products.
A company that has made a very big pitch selling products at cut rate stores does not come across as a better quality seller as I see it.
Of course those who sell a lot of cheap products will have more products in the field, but that does not make them better, except at hard-sell methods.

@
Reloadron I had not considered the option of using a universal voltage charger as the output sensor. That is quite an excellent concept indeed. GOOD THINKING!! Cheap and easy and a package already sealed and ready! Brilliant indeed!!

 

keeps saying "CT" I believe to mean "Center Tap" (neutral). I think you are reading it as "Current Transformer." When I see "CT" I also assume Current Transformer and given the nature of this discussion I think some disambiguation is warranted.

It's a 1ph CT gen. center tapped.

 

The thread starter wants to know how to sense when the genset is running including running in exercise mode.

Two small sensors, maybe $10 in parts. It's not clear if OP can make stuff and install onto a "facility" owned system, but, floating gate FET for running or not, and a pickup coil on a gen main to know if amps are flowing.

That provides all the data needed to determine if it's running in slow mode or std power mode, and if the xfer siwtch actually worked.

IIRC, OP said there's a x-420 DAC that will send alerts, so interfacing with x-420 is fairly easy.

 

and it also verifies that both phases are present,

It's a 1ph CT gen. There is no "both phases". The system will be in a boat load of hurt if the gen N (CT) lifts, or one of the mains fail. I think those fail states are very rare and outside the scope of OP ask.

 

Maybe I missed someone else posting (buy by gosh we're on page 7....), but if you have 120VAC across hots during 1/2 speed test and 240VAC across hots when full speed. Why not simply buy a 5V wall wart that has 100V-240V input with 5V out. Plug in and now you get 5V when generator running.....
https://www.amazon.com/Arkare-100V-240V-Replacement-Security-Raspberry-Pi/dp/B09W8X9VGK/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3P1CTCBSITBVQ&keywords=5v+1a+power+supply+50v&qid=1697555598&sprefix=5v+1a+power+supply+50v+,aps,44&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Because warts, and transformers in general, have "Hz" as an operational rating. Low speed run and the Hz is like 40. Go plug in a 60Hz wart into a 40Hz source, see what happens. The fun gets better when the wart is china junk dc-dc converter inside.

Contactless sensing, IMHO, is the better way. The OP wants to sense a "facility" gen state, it's not his own personal gen. So, we don't want a facility to go up in smoke, or gen fail, because OP attached a wart to gen mains.