There is my problem with CC. 4 to 6 hours of a CC class do NOT make you prepared for defending your self or others.

That's not the purpose of most CC classes. Many classes (depends on the state) do not involve any actual firearms training at all precisely because that is not the purpose. The primary purpose is to educate you on what the laws are that relate to concealed carry and when firearms may and may not be used, not HOW to use firearms. You do that on your own (or take separate classes on that). Some states require some demonstration of competency with a handgun and may allow a variety of ways to satisfy that requirement. When I first got my Concealed Weapons permit I satisfied that requirement by presenting my DD-214 showing that I had qualified as Expert in the service. But that did not mean that I didn't need to learn what the laws were in Colorado. Now, that was twenty years ago and the laws on CC requirements are quite dynamic, so I don't know what is required these days (I let mine lapse when I moved).

 

The simple truth is concealed carry permit holders are the safest, most law-abiding citizens in this country.

When I renewed by permit (2002?) I asked the CC coordinator for my county how many permit holders there were and how many holders had improperly used a firearm. At that time there were over 12,000 active permits in the county and the total number of permits that had been revoked for cause was just three and none of those for misuse of a weapon.

 

The simple truth is concealed carry permit holders are the safest, most law-abiding citizens in this country.

In fact, we have more to lose than the "average" citizen. I value my carry permit. I have to ensure that I don't behave in such a way that would result in me losing it.

 

In fact, we have more to lose than the "average" citizen. I value my carry permit. I have to ensure that I don't behave in such a way that would result in me losing it.

And this is reflected in the statistics over and over. While police officers are convicted of crimes (as individuals, not in conjunction with their jobs) at significantly lower rates than the public as a whole, concealed carry permit holders are convicted of crimes, particularly gun related crimes, as significantly lower rates than police officers. For gun-related crimes is about an order of magnitude lower.

 

For all the anti-gun people out there, just remember this:
When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.

 

Also, a handgun is like a hospital. You pray that you will never need one, but if you do, you will want it bad, need it fast and hope that it is close.

 

Here are some gun "truisms":

1) Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

2) It’s always better to be judged by 12 than be carried by 6.

3) Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

4) Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside an arms length.

5) Never say "I’ve got a gun". If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

6) The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes, the response time of a 9mm is 1100 feet per second.

7) The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win - cheat if necessary.

8) Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your own gun, but he’ll have to beat you to death with it, because it will be empty.

9) If you’re in a gun fight:
If you’re not shooting, you should be loading.
If you’re not loading, you should be moving.
If you’re not shooting, moving or loading, you’re probably dead.

10) In a life or death situation, do something - it may be wrong, but do something!

11) If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?

12) You can say "stop" or "halt" or "alto" or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much a universal language.

13) You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

 

I've heard most of those before -- but a couple new ones that I really like. Even some of the old ones that I haven't thought about in many a year.

 

I'm just going to put this out there...
Damn it feels good to be in a gun less country. And because I have two German shepherds I have never known the fear of being burgled, mugged or threatened with a weapon.

 

I'm just going to put this out there...
Damn it feels good to be in a gun less country. And because I have two German shepherds I have never known the fear of being burgled, mugged or threatened with a weapon.

Yes, I imagine it must feel real good to know that events like Hungerford, Dunblane, and Cumbria just simply cannot happen in the U.K..

What will you do when the government decides that you can't keep "dangerous animals"?

 

Yes, I imagine it must feel real good to know that events like Hungerford, Dunblane, and Cumbria just simply cannot happen in the U.K..

What will you do when the government decides that you can't keep "dangerous animals"?

Those shootings are incredibly rare (more rare than in America). In fact they are so rare I forgot all about them and never think about getting shot or being in a shooting situation. Come to think of it I dont think I have ever heard a gun in my life (with the exception of those shotgun sound things they use to scare birds, they have a large speaker).

If they class the German Shepherd as a dangerous dog then so be it, I will get some other dogs. When a dog becomes considered dangerous they cannot force you to put down the dogs you already own. You just cant buy another one. So for me the next dog I would get would be a giant schnauzer (or a border collie). And if all dogs where removed then I would get a proper security system with cameras etc.

As soon as you own a gun you open yourself to a lot of potential trouble. Having said that I talked to my mum about this and she said
"Its easy to disagree with those who own guns but imagine living in a country like America where even the wildlife (aligators, bears, mountain lions), are trying to kill you."

Worse thing we have in this country are badgers and pedos like Jimmy Savile.

 

About time you all woke up in America. Is it going to take more Islamic terrorist attacks before you finally jettison political correctness to call it what it is - the opening rounds in the attempt to drag the world back to the 'glory' of the Middle Ages.

Don't hold your breath waiting for us to wake up, or for us to jettison political correctness. It won't be happening anytime soon, as PC has become the supreme guiding philosophy of most of our ruling political elites; our government does everything it can (see Lynch: "Partial Transcript" Of Orlando 911 Calls Will Have References To Islamic Terrorism Removed, for example) to make sure Americans keep their heads buried firmly in the sand, and to ensure that we continue to ascribe attacks such as Orlando to anything BUT aggression by savage barbarians determined to obliterate Western civilization.

 

And this is reflected in the statistics over and over. While police officers are convicted of crimes (as individuals, not in conjunction with their jobs) at significantly lower rates than the public as a whole, concealed carry permit holders are convicted of crimes, particularly gun related crimes, as significantly lower rates than police officers. For gun-related crimes is about an order of magnitude lower.

Police officers and crime:
When rights are restricted to the few there's always an opportunity for misadventure.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/04/19/nypd-gun-permits/

NEW YORK(CBSNewYork) –The growing New York City corruption scandal begs a scary question; where are the illegal guns allegedly put on the streets by some cops in the NYPD License Division?

Getting the legal right to carry a gun in New York City if you’re not a cop is exceedingly rare, with only a few thousand permits being granted each year.

That’s why it’s such a shocker that 44-year-old Alex ‘Shaya’ Lichtenstein has been charged with bribing NYPD officials to get gun permits for people.

“We need to get guns off the street,” Temi Eka told CBS2’s Dave Carlin.

Lichtenstein allegedly bragged that he paid out $6,000 per permit and did it 150 times. But where are those illegally permitted guns now?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...arging-expedite-gun-permits-article-1.2605726

 

Some of you seem to think I'm anti-gun, nothing could be farther than that. I'm very pro- gun, have been all my life. But spending just a few hours on the rules of CC training is not the same as really knowing what to do in a situation. Being able to hit a target is not what I'm talking about.

 

Some of you seem to think I'm anti-gun, nothing could be farther than that. I'm very pro- gun, have been all my life. But spending just a few hours on the rules of CC training is not the same as really knowing what to do in a situation. Being able to hit a target is not what I'm talking about.

But you've yet to show where the process is demonstrably deficient. And we've shown that it isn't. You are entitled to your own opinion. Not to your own facts.

 

The way I look at it 4-8 hrs of training is better than nothing. Most of the people I see getting a permit already carry a weapon in their vehicle (it's legal here). The permit is so that they can carry it on their person, concealed or openly, their choice. Most of them shoot at least occasionally, some shoot a lot. As a Law Enforcement Officer I must qualify annually, 30 rounds for each pistol I carry, and 50 rounds for tactical carbine.
The carbine qualification course is more stringent because the rifle round has more potential for damage. One round outside of the target silhouette means you fail !

 

The way I look at it 4-8 hrs of training is better than nothing. Most of the people I see getting a permit already carry a weapon in their vehicle (it's legal here). The permit is so that they can carry it on their person, concealed or openly, their choice. Most of them shoot at least occasionally, some shoot a lot. As a Law Enforcement Officer I must qualify annually, 30 rounds for each pistol I carry, and 50 rounds for tactical carbine.
The carbine qualification course is more stringent because the rifle round has more potential for damage. One round outside of the target silhouette means you fail !

And I shoot at least 4,000 rounds per year. Just for fun. And that is just my handgun.

 

And I shoot at least 4,000 rounds per year. Just for fun. And that is just my handgun.

As do I. I average 4-5k in 9mm alone and probably 3-4k in 45acp ( I reload everything I shoot). Another deputy that shoots with me probably doubles what I shoot. And there are a few LEO's that only shoot once a year, qualification day really makes them sweat.

 

Some of you seem to think I'm anti-gun, nothing could be farther than that. I'm very pro- gun, have been all my life. But spending just a few hours on the rules of CC training is not the same as really knowing what to do in a situation. Being able to hit a target is not what I'm talking about.

I don't think that anyone is saying that it IS the same. The primary intent is to inform CC permit holders of the legalities of what they can (and even more to the point, what they can't) do.

How many hours does it take to "really" know what to do in a situation that you've never been in before? How many hours of training does a young women get in order to know what to do when confronted by a rapist? Basically none. Most have gotten a few platitudes thrown at them (like yell, "Fire!" because passersby are supposedly more likely to get involved when they hear that than when they hear someone calling for help because they are being attacked) and a small fraction take a one hour self-defense class sponsored by some well-meaning organization. But even if that young woman had been taking karate for ten years, would she "really" know what to do in that situation? Regardless of how much training she does or doesn't have, in the event that she is faced with that situation, she has no choice but to decide what she is going to do then and there. If someone breaks into your house and has killed your wife and is now brutalizing your daughter and you are able to get your hands on a baseball bat are you going to not take action because you haven't received hours of training so that you "really" know what to do in that situation?

Another thing to consider, if the training received by literally millions of CC permit holders is so terribly inadequate, then why do we see virtually zero instances in which CC permit holders act improperly when exercising the privileges granted?

First and foremost, I would suggest that, just like all the people that learn karate (or whatever) to be able to defend themselves, the vast majority of CC permit holders are never in a position to have cause to even consider drawing their weapon (and just as the vast majority of policemen will never have cause to draw their weapon throughout their entire career). Second, I would suggest that the training they DO receive is adequate to prevent them from even considering whether they perhaps maybe should draw their weapon in the much more common situations in which their training has made it clear that they shouldn't even consider it.

 

I think the basic premise behind CC training and action is that if the other person has not pulled a gun and or shot already or directly confronted someone with another potentially lethal weapon your gun stays in its holster.

Bad guys waving his/their gun/guns around and firing shots or has one to someone's head or has a knife or other such item to someone's throat then it's probably okay to unholster yours and consider your options on taking defensive actions.

If no obvious life threating actions have taken place your gun stays where it belongs.

It's not a hard concept to follow for any sane rational person of which the vast vast majority of CC persons are.