Rotary phase converter, start capacitor bleeder resistor

Thread Starter

jorgewad

Joined Oct 15, 2024
8
I build a rotary phase converter with an idle motor.
I have damaged a few start capacitors and solid state relays when I realized that the start capacitor after 2 or 3 seconds I turned off the circuit was sending voltage to the timer relay which was activating the solid state relay which was connecting the start capacitor again for 1 second to the circuit which caused the motor to brake aggressively and for that I damaged I few capacitors.
To solution this I added a bleeder resistor in parallel to the capacitor to discharge it. It worked. But the problem is when I'm going to start the circuit again the start capacitor is discharged.
May someone could help me find a solution.
I will leave the diagram attached.
1000000715.png
 

panic mode

Joined Oct 10, 2011
4,864
I have damaged a few start capacitors and solid state relays when I realized that the start capacitor after 2 or 3 seconds I turned off the circuit ....
turned off what circuit and how?
btw. if Rel-1 or CT-1 have spare NO contact, it can be used in series with timer coil. if not, one can add aux contact on CT-1.
but using bleeder resistor acros start capacitor is always a good idea, specially for forgetful or not cautious type. you do not want to get a nasty surprise some day when trying to check or service this device.

But the problem is when I'm going to start the circuit again the start capacitor is discharged.
May someone could help me find a solution.
why is discharged start capacitor a problem?
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

jorgewad

Joined Oct 15, 2024
8
turned off what circuit and how?
btw. ir Rel-1 or CT-1 have spare NO contact, it can be used in series with timer coil. if not one can add aux contact or CT-1.
but using bleeder resistor acros start capacitor is always a good idea, specially for forgetful or not cautious type. you do not want to get a nasty surprise some day when trying to check or service this device.



why is discharged start capacitor a problem?
I mean when I turn off the rotary phase converter with the push button (after 2 or 3 seconds the start capacitor, it seems to reenergize the timer relay which activates the ssr which connect the start capacitor and make the idler motor brake aggressively). If the capacitor is discharged when I'll try to start the Rotary phase converter again it won't start because of the discharged start capacitor.

Also, the timer relay is rated at 220v, NO contacts of the CT1 are rated at 120V.
 

Thread Starter

jorgewad

Joined Oct 15, 2024
8
I mean when I turn off the rotary phase converter with the push button (after 2 or 3 seconds the start capacitor, it seems to reenergize the timer relay which activates the ssr which connect the start capacitor and make the idler motor brake aggressively). If the capacitor is discharged when I'll try to start the Rotary phase converter again it won't start because of the discharged start capacitor.

Also, the timer relay is rated at 220v, NO contacts of the CT1 are rated at 120V.
Correction, I suppose NO contacts work up to 690v. I can give it a try. Maybe using the NO contacts with timer relay can avoid any voltage after the rpc is off to reach the timer relay
 

panic mode

Joined Oct 10, 2011
4,864
I mean when I turn off the rotary phase converter with the push button (after 2 or 3 seconds the start capacitor, it seems to reenergize the timer relay which activates the ssr which connect the start capacitor and make the idler motor brake aggressively). If the capacitor is discharged when I'll try to start the Rotary phase converter again it won't start because of the discharged start capacitor.
Start capacitor should only be connected initially - to start the motor (not stop it). During this startup time load must be disconnected and CT-2 must be off.... Are you sure that CT-2 is off in this case? If necessary add auxiliary NC contact to CT-2 and also wire it in series with timer coil. Is the timer set correctly? Maybe it is too short and start capacitor is disconnected before motor has reached running speed. Maybe capacitor values are not right. Maybe something is not wired correctly. Can you post some pictures of the actual wiring?
 

Thread Starter

jorgewad

Joined Oct 15, 2024
8
Start capacitor should only be connected initially - to start the motor (not stop it). During this startup time load must be disconnected and CT-2 must be off.... Are you sure that CT-2 is off in this case? If necessary add auxiliary NC contact to CT-2 and also wire it in series with timer coil. Is the timer set correctly? Maybe it is too short and start capacitor is disconnected before motor has reached running speed. Maybe capacitor values are not right. Maybe something is not wired correctly. Can you post some pictures of the actual wiring?
I am aware that the start capacitor is just for start the motor. Ct2 can not be disconnected because is the one sending three lives line from the motor. Timer is set to 0.5s enough to start the motor.
 

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panic mode

Joined Oct 10, 2011
4,864
fair enough, let me rephrase it...

CT-2 must be de-energized while motor is starting... the only reason for CT-2 is to decouple load during startup. if i recall inrush motor current is some 100-250ms so 0.5sec should work though it sounds a bit aggressive. your picture shows that contactors have unused aux contacts so you can use them to interlock the timer.
 
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