https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvGO_dWo8VfcmG166wKRy5z-GlJ_OQND5

 

I remember films like these.

 

Some of these are images I've never seen. Maybe before long we'll see them in movies. The current "mushroom cloud" is pretty stock and predictable but these new releases show there are other patterns.

 

There is somewhere on line a declassified report on the set-up of the first "trinity" nuke test. Makes for interesting history of the beginning of the nuke age. A lot of scientists where not even sure that it wouldn't set the atmosphere alight.

 

Some are more declassified than others...

 

That unavailable video was a third party mix of several LLNL videos released on youtube and not from LLNL.

Fixed...

 

Hi,

What is interesting to think about is what would have happened if nobody ever discovered the nuclear type of weapons, and what it took to get to that point.

First, if these kinds of weapons were never discovered and could never be discovered, we would not now ever have the thread of nuclear war.

Second, what it took to get to that point was higher intelligence, higher with respect to other animals that could never do such a thing. Therefore there is a chance that intelligence is doomed to kill itself off at some point in it's existence. The other animals could never do this, so they evolve more naturally in oscillatory cycles of large and small populations.

Of course the bigger picture is what happens in the long run to any of the animals regardless what their intelligence is. They live for a while and then possibly go extinct, but on very long time scales there comes a natural threat from space which has a big impact on the environment and quickly kills some of them. Ultimately though threats from space and just the solar environment will eventually kill all of them unless something intelligent can take them away to a safer place. That's assuming the intelligence can increase fast enough to make space travel viable before it destroys itself or an external intelligence can come in and take them away to a safe place.

 

Hi,

What is interesting to think about is what would have happened if nobody ever discovered the nuclear type of weapons, and what it took to get to that point.

First, if these kinds of weapons were never discovered and could never be discovered, we would not now ever have the thread of nuclear war.

Second, what it took to get to that point was higher intelligence, higher with respect to other animals that could never do such a thing. Therefore there is a chance that intelligence is doomed to kill itself off at some point in it's existence. The other animals could never do this, so they evolve more naturally in oscillatory cycles of large and small populations.

Of course the bigger picture is what happens in the long run to any of the animals regardless what their intelligence is. They live for a while and then possibly go extinct, but on very long time scales there comes a natural threat from space which has a big impact on the environment and quickly kills some of them. Ultimately though threats from space and just the solar environment will eventually kill all of them unless something intelligent can take them away to a safer place. That's assuming the intelligence can increase fast enough to make space travel viable before it destroys itself or an external intelligence can come in and take them away to a safe place.

'If, if, if' in this case is IMO impossible for any civilization at the advanced physics of electricity level. Like you said it was discovered because it's a natural process that every intelligent species with discover. The discover and use of nuclear fusion should be as common as farming in the universe. I personally think the threat of nuclear war has reduced the chances of humans kill itself off due to war of all kinds. Sure the possibility of some idiot or terror group using a small number of WMD in the future is a almost certainty but the possibility of surprise attack that put the US, Chinese and Soviet weapons on hair trigger during the Cold-War MAD era is just about impossible today with the current level of surveillance and detection technology.

 

'If, if, if' in this case is IMO impossible for any civilization at the advanced physics of electricity level. Like you said it was discovered because it's a natural process that every intelligent species with discover. The discover and use of nuclear fusion should be as common as farming in the universe. I personally think the threat of nuclear war has reduced the chances of humans kill itself off due to war of all kinds. Sure the possibility of some idiot or terror group using a small number of WMD in the future is a almost certainty but the possibility of surprise attack that put the US, Chinese and Soviet weapons on hair trigger during the Cold-War MAD era is just about impossible today with the current level of surveillance and detection technology.

Hi again,

"if" provides us with a means to explore possibilities of all kinds. We may or may not be able to reason something out in the near future, but asking the question gives us at least the chance of figuring it out beforehand.

Not sure what you are saying here though. It sounds like you are saying that nobody can kill us unless they can kill us. I might tend to believe the nuclear-threat-to-safety theory if it were not for some nuts out there and also some big mistakes that are made, as well as rogue countries. Our saving grace is that some of them might blow themselves up trying first

 

Hi again,

"if" provides us with a means to explore possibilities of all kinds. We may or may not be able to reason something out in the near future, but asking the question gives us at least the chance of figuring it out beforehand.

Not sure what you are saying here though. It sounds like you are saying that nobody can kill us unless they can kill us. I might tend to believe the nuclear-threat-to-safety theory if it were not for some nuts out there and also some big mistakes that are made, as well as rogue countries. Our saving grace is that some of them might blow themselves up trying first

I just think that no nuclear technology for intelligent lifeforms is unscientific to the point of fantasy. The total destruction of humans from this planet from a nut level (10 or less 1-10MT bombs) nuke strike and retaliation is just about impossible. Mistakes happen but the possibility of a first-launch type MAD level take out the planet strike is much lower today than say in 1963 due the level of safeguards built into even the most primitive designs and the fact the world is much smaller in terms of global interactions. Even the nutty North Koreans don't want a unauthorized launch.

 

I'll bet nuclear weapons have saved much, much more war dead than taken. So far. I tend to agree with nsaspook.....even if one or two are used.....and then retaliated against........I think (or hope maybe) that there would not be an all out party.

Say Iran shot 4 or 5 at Israel. Say one got thru. Israel would pound Iran to dust. I don't think anyone would retaliate for Iran. Same with N.K. And Pakistan.

Just an opinion.

 

I just think that no nuclear technology for intelligent lifeforms is unscientific to the point of fantasy. The total destruction of humans from this planet from a nut level (10 or less 1-10MT bombs) nuke strike and retaliation is just about impossible. Mistakes happen but the possibility of a first-launch type MAD level take out the planet strike is much lower today than say in 1963 due the level of safeguards built into even the most primitive designs and the fact the world is much smaller in terms of global interactions. Even the nutty North Koreans don't want a unauthorized launch.

Hi,

You ever see a schematic of their system?

 

Hi,

You ever see a schematic of their system?

It's suspected to be a Chinese fail-safe design, they don't want a N.K. bomb exploding next to them either from a fail-deadly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permissive_Action_Link#Usage_by_other_states

The story is the Chinese gave the nuclear bomb design CHIC-4 to the Pakistanis and that NK traded for the PK version of the CHIC-4 design.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...like-pakistan-north-korea-build-nuclear-bombs

In the wake of the Suez crisis in 1956, the French and the Israelis initiated a joint nuclear weapons program that resulted in a test in the Algerian desert. At that test in 1960, two countries went nuclear with one shot. Is the world safer or more dangerous with all these powers?


The world is safer for having all the permanent UN Security Council members possess nuclear weapons. I think having North Korea, Pakistan, and India is probably not a good idea. Nuclear proliferation, above all, is not inevitable as many thought at the dawn of the nuclear age.

 

It's suspected to be a Chinese fail-safe design, they don't want a N.K. bomb exploding next to them either from a fail-deadly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permissive_Action_Link#Usage_by_other_states

The story is the Chinese gave the nuclear bomb design CHIC-4 to the Pakistanis and that NK traded for the PK version of the CHIC-4 design.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...like-pakistan-north-korea-build-nuclear-bombs

Hi,

So it's got "Made in China" stamped on the side somewhere in small print
I dont know about you but that makes me feel real secure, ha ha.
An all along i thought they got one off of eBay

I dont think i can buy into the "nuclear weapons save lives" idea, that sounds like just a sugar coating for something that is much more bitter. If that's true then everyone should have one.

 

I dont think i can buy into the "nuclear weapons save lives" idea, that sounds like just a sugar coating for something that is much more bitter. If that's true then everyone should have one.

I think it saved lives on both sides in WW2 but that's just about the only place the theory has real data and we still argue the point.
http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/AD1019186

 

I think it saved lives on both sides in WW2 but that's just about the only place the theory has real data and we still argue the point.
http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/AD1019186

Hi,

Oh i didnt think you were talking about history, i thought you were talking future. Yes i agree about that historical event. Too bad it had to be like that.
I actually lost two uncles in the Korean war.

 

Hi,

Oh i didnt think you were talking about history, i thought you were talking future. Yes i agree about that historical event. Too bad it had to be like that.
I actually lost two uncles in the Korean war.

I am talking about the future but without historical atomic weapon usage and proliferation data it's just looking into a crystal ball for the future.

 

I am talking about the future but without historical atomic weapon usage and proliferation data it's just looking into a crystal ball for the future.

Hi,

I guess i was saying that it's like that anyway. It doent seem to stop wars though. We still have wars today, but if you would rather call them 'battles' then that's ok too i guess.
Everything done today though is partially covert. It's not always open warfare so it might not look like war but it is. Lots of people get killed or displaced.
There's also the threat of injury or death due to cyber attacks. It's called industrial cyber attacks or something like that. There was a virus perpetrated on Iran's nuclear program for example.

It's truly astonishing what problems we cause when we solve problems with technology.

 

There's also the threat of injury or death due to cyber attacks. It's called industrial cyber attacks or something like that. There was a virus perpetrated on Iran's nuclear program for example.

Cyber attacks are usually better than 'real attacks with the danger of 'real' war. We could have completely destroyed Iran's nuclear program back then like Israel did in Iraq.

 

Cyber attacks are usually better than 'real attacks with the danger of 'real' war. We could have completely destroyed Iran's nuclear program back then like Israel did in Iraq.

Hi,

That might have been true years ago, but today isnt it possible that they could interfere with the very infrastructure of a nation and cause a large amount of collateral damage?
For example, if a nuclear power plant or worse yet multiple plants could be infiltrated sufficiently think of what might happen.
The best example though i think is if the power grid went down in the whole country lots of people would die for various reasons.
Im sure there are safeguards in place for good reasons but there are often security breaches that are exploited before they are known to be a problem.