I was thinking to buy a relay "JQC-3F(T73) 5V 10A" it cost 0.50$ and its available in our local electrical shop.

Does the shop have the 12 volt version of that relay it draws much less current?

 

The routing of wire #183 is as follows:
Starting at A110X1 (F3) to X15 (D2) to X170 (E) to KR1 (85)

As you've already shown us the Big Picture, and as above, I've traced it out from the controller to KR1. I guess there are no switches or other user interfaces between KR1 and A110X1. That being said, the solution may be to disconnect 183 at A110X1 pin F3 and connect it to the NO pin of yet another relay. One that operates on the same voltage as the tractor. Using a 5V relay on a 12V system means you have to buck the voltage by 7 volts (drop 7 volts from 12 volts to get 5 volts). Doable, but a non-necessity. @sghioto suggested a relay module that will likely work. However, you WILL want to put it in a weather proof box to prevent moisture from causing accidental triggering of the relay.

On that relay module you'll want to connect the NO pin to GND and COM to wire 183. Power to that relay module will turn it on (I'm assuming) and close the NO contact with the COM port. Wire 183 will now be grounded and the lights will be on. Day or night - the lights will be on whenever the tractor is running.

You probably won't be able to use A110X1 (F3) to trigger that relay module.

In this case the best solution (provided the customer does not complain about it) is to use another relay to provide ground to KR1. I'll bang out another drawing shortly. Again, day or night - lights will be on. I know I probably wouldn't be happy about that. But then again, whenever my snowblower runs the headlight is on. So - - - .

 

On that relay module you'll want to connect the NO pin to GND and COM to wire 183. Power to that relay module will turn it on (I'm assuming) and close the NO contact with the COM port. Wire 183 will now be grounded and the lights will be on. Day or night - the lights will be on whenever the tractor is running.

I already showed how to wire that relay module in post #28.
Your description is incorrect and should be deleted.

 

I already showed how to wire that relay module in post #28.
Your description is incorrect and should be deleted.

Not seeing how it's incorrect. What are you seeing?

Meanwhile, here's the drawing I was talking about:

IF A110X1 pin F3 provides ground then by disconnecting 183 from it and wiring it to another relay (as shown) KRnew will ground pin 87 (wire 183) through pin 30. That will do the same thing as the TS was doing when hard wiring KR1 pin 86 to hard ground. KR2 only selects low beams or high beams. KR2 will be controlled by the MFS. KR1 will be controlled by keyed power and KRnew. Unless I got something WAY wrong, I believe this is right.

One CRITICAL thing with KRnew is that it must be rated for full time use. A simple horn relay will overheat and likely burn out. KRnew doesn't even need pin 87a. I just drew one relay and then copied and pasted it over and over, not bothering to delete 87a.

The way this works is when the key is on so are the lights. Again, if your customer can live with that - - - .

 

Screen shot from Sghioto's post (#28)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The problem I'm focusing on is that wire 183 from connector A110X1 pin F3 is that it should provide ground. SHOULD provide ground. But it isn't. Or not sufficiently doing so. Wiring 183 to the trigger MIGHT work. It MIGHT NOT.

Admittedly, if your solution works then it's clearly the better solution. But that's IF it works. From the logic of it - it must work. But the state of the controller being unknown, and given that the TS has told us that this problem is a common problem, and they don't want to spend the bucks on a new controller - - - this may be a non-solution.

The one I propose can't miss. But it has a clear drawback - that of the lights being on whenever the tractor is running.

 

Wiring 183 to the trigger MIGHT work. It MIGHT NOT.

That's what I said "Hopefully this will work as the signal input requires only a few milliamps."
Certainly a lot less then one of those auto relays that can draw as much as 150ma.

 

Not seeing how it's incorrect. What are you seeing?

Wire 183 from the controller is the "ground" applied to the signal input of the module set for Low trigger.
The relay in the module is only activated when the signal input is Low.

 

Does the shop have the 12 volt version of that relay it draws much less current?

I found this one to be available "HF3FF/012-1ZST" its has minimal working voltage 9v its perfect i had 10.3volts on that cable 183# max 10amps i dont need to pass current i need to activate the KR1.I think it should work.That module that you suggested they dont have it in stock sadly i called them and it needs 10days of shipping,but in there other shop 100km away i can asked them to transfer it for me they will.Im going to test it on monday if my boss send me again to resolve this issue cuz the weather is getting bad here and the customer don't have shed.

 

That's what I said "Hopefully this will work as the signal input requires only a few milliamps."

We're bumping heads. I have all the respect for sghioto and his skills and knowledge. But sometimes we do disagree.
"input requires only a few milliamps." No, and this is why I disagree; ground is ground. No mA. Admittedly I don't know if this will work or not. And I respect your approach. In fact, I've screen captured portions of your post and turned them into a different drawing. One I still believe could work. All based on the notion that A110X1 F3 is a hard ground (or fails to be)

This COULD work - - - if you're lucky. Since we don't know how the controller is wired I'm imagining a pull down transistor that provides the ground for KR1. If that transistor is open there's a slight chance it could back-feed wire 183 with sufficient voltage to trigger the relay module. I don't see that as being the case. Not saying you're wrong SG, just saying I disagree and why.

 

I'm gonna go look for a good football game. Be back later.

 

In fact, I've screen captured portions of your post and turned them into a different drawing. One I still believe could work.

Why it's basically the same drawing!
Here's the schematic of this module. Read Note 2.
This why I believe wire 183 from the controller is sufficient, it doesn't need to go to zero volts.
I have one of those modules and the relay activated with only 1ma of current.
As long as the controller can sink 1ma at 12 volts it will work.

 

I have one of those modules and the realy activated with only 1ma of current.

Did not know that. Thanks for the clarity.

Basically the same? Yeah, I suppose so. The key difference is the use of a 12 volt source that is key switch operated. Didn't suggest your approach was wrong, just wanted to be sure the TS understood that he'd need that keyed source of power for the module. But if yours works on 1mA then it should work.

Football game not on for another hour and a quarter. (off topic)

 

Sure a 12 volt keyed voltage is required regardless of the solution.
I posted this module as it's basically plug and play versus building a circuit.
That 5 volt relay the TS is considering draws a minimum of 65ma to activate
The 12 volt version needs a minimum of 22ma. Will this work?
This simple P mosfet circuit will work as well if the TS can wire it up.

 

Sure a 12 volt keyed voltage is required regardless of the solution.
I posted this module as it's basically plug and play versus building a circuit.
That 5 volt relay the TS is considering draws a minimum of 65ma to activate
The 12 volt version needs a minimum of 22ma. Will this work?
This simple P mosfet circuit will work as well if the TS can wire it up.
View attachment 340173

I can and i will try it .Thanks
Edit: Is there specific p chanel mosfet or it doesn't matter i picked on IRF540N?

 

The IRF540 is a N channel mosfet so won't work in this design.
No specific one but must be a P channel type that can handle 500ma of current.
What might be available at the local shop?

 

Chargers lead the Texans 6/0 at the end of the first Q.

I was thinking inside the controller, output at F3 could be held high with a pull up resistor, which might account for the 10 volts the TS was seeing. The pull up resistor could be pulled low by a transistor inside the controller. If the transistor has become defective that could be the reason why KR1 failed to activate through wire 183.

 

Chargers lead the Texans 6/0 at the end of the first Q.

No spoiler alerts! I'm recording the game.

 

The IRF540 is a N channel mosfet so won't work in this design.
No specific one but must be a P channel type that can handle 500ma of current.
What might be available at the local shop?

I found IRF9Z34N to be available but im concerned about the voltage its says 50v is that going to be a problem or not.

Chargers lead the Texans 6/0 at the end of the first Q.

I was thinking inside the controller, output at F3 could be held high with a pull up resistor, which might account for the 10 volts the TS was seeing. The pull up resistor could be pulled low by a transistor inside the controller. If the transistor has become defective that could be the reason why KR1 failed to activate through wire 183.

it might be ,but cant open the controler infront of the customer i want badly to dig in but can't sadly.

 

I found IRF9Z34N to be available but im concerned about the voltage its says 50v is that going to be a problem or not.

Overkill but should work OK.

 

Overkill but should work OK.

I'm checking on there website maybe they have something decent in stock i will took 3kinds of mosfet who works i will install the better one ,on my way to the customer there is another electiral shop that have more products in stock i will check there aswell.