Hello ,
I need an assistans about on how can a trick this negative wire that is weak and is controlled by a controller of the machine when i give it an extra ground everything is working as should be ,but when i turn off everything the high beams stay on all the time cuz they are hot all the time from the battery.I want to give that KR2 my own good ground connection but it has to be activated from wire 113 no way around.
Thanks in advance

 

What voltage readings are on wire 113 when activated and not activated?
Is pin 85 on KR2 connected to ground?

 

Sorry, my bad its wire 183 that one it has 10.2volts when measuring to plus the red one on 86 and 30 pin on relay KR1(the red wire on pin 86 and 30 has 13.5v when tried a actual ground point and ofc when machine is started and running)
The wire on pin 85 its ground from controller that via can bus knows that is been pressed the lever for high beam or the flasher then the controller gives ground to 85pin to relay KR1 to be activated but its weak ground like i mention

 

Measure wire 183 from ground please.

 

Measure wire 183 from ground please.

If you thinking the wire 183 its shorted to plus ,its not i give it a nice ground with a new wire and it didn't sparked.I messred the ground voltage directly from the starting point of the controller and its the same voltage like its on the relay pin 85

 

You are saying the ground from the controller to pin 85 of KR2 is "weak" and will not activate the relay, correct?

 

I suspect the TS is reading the voltage from pin 86 through KR1's coil and measuring pin 85 to ground. Apparently, since grounding pin 85 results in triggering the relay it seems apparent that the controller is what grounds the relay to activate KR1. When KR1 activates it takes 13.5V from pin 30 to pin 87 (not 87a). That applies power to KR2 pin 30. From there it goes to either pin 87 or 87a, depending on high beams or low beams is the desired result. It also appears there may be either a resistor or a diode inside the relays. Following polarity is important. It appears pins 85 are intended to be constant powered and pins 86 are intended to be grounded through the controller.

I'm not clear on what the goal is. I read that when KR1 pin 85 is hard grounded the high beams stay on. I'm just guessing but I would say E174 & E175 are low and high beams, left and right and powered through KR2 pin 87a. For certain a better drawing (more complete) would be useful.

 

Followup on my previous comment:
Pin 87a (KR2) is low beams. (E174 & E175 A). Pin 87 is high beams. (E174 & 175 B).

If high beams are staying on when KR1 is grounded then that would make sense since power is flowing from KR1 pin 30 through pin 87 to KR2 pin 30 through pin 87a to the high beams. The lamps are shown with black wires (C) so they're probably going directly to ground.

So again, what's the goal?

 

You are saying the ground from the controller to pin 85 of KR2 is "weak" and will not activate the relay, correct?

Thats correct.

So again, what's the goal?

The goal is ,if there is way to activate "trigger" 183 wire somehow with other relay low voltage or with a LM311 comparator IC so i can put a new good ground so when the controller activates 183 wire and can activate my "new " good ground.I draw i better explanation but you got it

 

Not sure if I have it or not.
Wire 113 is to provide a ground to KR1 and wire 183 supplies +12 volts to KR2.
Again which relay is not operating correctly?

 

Not sure if I have it or not.
Wire 113 is to provide a ground to KR1 and wire 183 supplies +12 volts to KR2.
Again which relay is not operating correctly?

Wire 183 it doesn't have good ground,so relay KR1 its not working correctly

 

You are saying the ground from the controller to pin 85 of KR2 is "weak" and will not activate the relay, correct?

Thats correct.

Then there's a problem either with the controller or a loose or corroded terminal.

Has been my experience with electrical issues with vehicles it's often a bad ground. Had a Chevy Geo that was given to me because of several issues. Among them was the headlights wouldn't light unless you stepped on the clutch pedal. That meant that everything was being grounded through the clutch system. NOT GOOD! One night I started the car and turned the headlights on but they wouldn't come on. So I opened the hood and there on the radiator support rail was a bright glowing spot. Like an idiot I touched it. Got an immediate burn. It was a bad ground. The next day I went through all the ground points and made new grounding cables and grounded them to fresh clean metal. That was the end of the electrical problems.

You've referred to a machine with high beams and low beams. I'm assuming we're talking about a car. If so - how old is the car? What part of the world is the car operated in? I ask that question because the Geo was operated in Connecticut (US). Lots of road salts in the winter time. Lots of corrosion. Rather than working around a problem it might be faster, cheaper and easier to fix the problem than to look for a way around it.

 

Not sure if I have it or not.
Wire 113 is to provide a ground to KR1 and wire 183 supplies +12 volts to KR2.

It LOOKS like wire 183 provides ground for KR1, pin 85.
It LOOKS like wire 113 provides power for KR2 pin 86. Pin 85 (black wire) seems likely to be ground. That's why I'm asking for a more complete drawing. The wires from the lights go straight down (black on terminal's C). If power comes from the top (above KR1, down through the two relays to the lamps, the black wires (C) must be chassis ground.

 

Wire 183 it doesn't have good ground,so relay KR1 its not working correctly

OK my mistake getting the wires confused.
Read the voltage on wire 183 from ground when KR1 is activated and deactivated.

 

Read the voltage on wire 183 from ground when KR1 is activated and deactivated.

Would guess it should be zero volts when activated. Also, check the continuity from pin 85 (KR1) to ground with everything turned off and with it turned on.

Remember, grounding KR1 pin 85 results in triggering the relay. It MUST be a controlled ground so that the lights are ON or OFF. KR2 controls High / Low beams. Again, guesswork here. Still don't have a good drawing or know what vehicle we're discussing.

 

Would guess it should be zero volts when activated.

That's what I'm trying to find out and what I believe the TS means by a "weak" ground from the controller.

 

Follow the 113 wire its taking ground from the switch.Its not a car its a John Deere Tractor 8335r.The machine has two sets of high beam and low beams one on the hood and other on the front windshield called loader high beam and low beam,they are working difrently when the button on the armrest is pressed for LIGHT1 the high beams on the hood are working only,when the swich lights2 is pressed on the hood they stop working when the lever is pulled or flashed on the front windshield they start working.I have problem on the windshield beams.Its not corrosion on the cables i checked them from the start point and the end point with a 55w bulb the wire is good i mean the 183 wire.The problem is the controller is faulty we had them removed entarly before cuz its a common fault.I can tell the controller that he is not equipt with such headlights ,but my boss sold the machine and nobody check them before sending the machine if they are working. It will come from our pocket if we replace the controller so im trying to work around something.I can try to use the wiring from the hood to work with the windshiled once together but ,they have exacly the same machine and if they check its not working like the other one it will be nightmare to explain.

 

Any chance on getting those voltage readings on pin 85 of KR1?
If you can get KR1 to work that will solve your work around?

 

Yes on KR1 85 pin should have solid ground connection but i dont have. The lights only flash for 0.03sec and they go off when the lever is pulled to have high beams or to flash.

 

Yes on KR1 85 pin should have solid ground connection but i dont have. The lights only flash for 0.03sec and they go off when the lever is pulled to have high beams or to flash.

I get that but a voltage reading would be helpful.