# Regulation for electrical insulated tools

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
Hi, everyone
Does somebody know if there is a regulation about time when hand-held electrical tools (like screwdrivers, pliers, rubber gloves and boots, even instruments used on live circuits) have to be replaced or tested for insulation? I know there was a time when this checking was made in special laboratories every year (with a certificate of validity), or have been replaced by employer (cheaper than testing) on a basically year round. I am ETO on merchant vessel, with more than 30 years of experience. My present employer is reticient on replacement, looks like I have to get my own set or to show him some international regulation.

#### Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
705
Ordinary hand tools are not designed to be used on live and hazardous circuits and they should not be used for that purpose.

However, there are safety standards for shoes and other apparel that are worn by personnel who work on high voltage.

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
To mr. Holland:
I missed to write electrically insulated hand tools (or even double insulated). ETO stands for Electro-Technical Officer, not some carpenter which want to exchange a wall socket with his tools. And I need something specific, like Regulation nr. / year... You just write something so that you can thick as many threads joined.

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
8,717
To mr. Holland:
You just write something so that you can thick as many threads joined.
Nonsense

If you are looking for regulations and you want someone else to do the legwork, at least let us know for which governing authority you need the regulation.

#### Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
10,902
Have you checked
"IEC TC 18: Electrical installations of ships and of mobile and fixed offshore units" to see if it mentions tools and equipment servicing?

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
Nonsense

If you are looking for regulations and you want someone else to do the legwork, at least let us know for which governing authority you need the regulation.
Yes, I have found regulation BS EN 60100, for which request around 400 USD to download (depending from site to site). My present employer is german, but I guess there must be some international regulationabout this.

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
Have you checked
"IEC TC 18: Electrical installations of ships and of mobile and fixed offshore units" to see if it mentions tools and equipment servicing?
Tried to see what is about, but as a non-member, I am not authorized. Thanks for reply.

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
8,717
Yes, I have found regulation BS EN 60100, for which request around 400 USD to download (depending from site to site). My present employer is german, but I guess there must be some international regulationabout this.
Many regulations are costly to obtain. One can often find summaries that are free, but a manufacturer who needs to meet regulations is best served by having an official, dated copy.

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
Many regulations are costly to obtain. One can often find summaries that are free, but a manufacturer who needs to meet regulations is best served by having an official, dated copy.
I believe such regulations must be free to check and follow, like you have for street speed limit, not something to pay a lot for and later to find that they are useless for what you looking for. For this amount I can supply myself with enough tools until retirement. I have been expected to meet some experienced people in domain, but seems that only lawyer or out of tematic join this thread. Thanks, anyway.

#### Lo_volt

Joined Apr 3, 2014
97
To all that have replied, the TS is trying to find recommendations for testing and replacement of his equipment. He's at least making an effort to be safe in his workplace. Let's try to be helpful, he's not asking us to do homework for him.

As far as I can tell, this would include testing the equipment to confirm that it is still safe to use, i.e. something like hipot or insulation testing. He'll also want recommendations on timing intervals.

I don't personally know what regulations or regulatory agency this might fall under, but my first guess would be OSHA here in the US. Does anyone know what the comparable agency is in Germany?

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
I will have to download SOLAS, maybe I can find something there. Recently we get an inspection from DNV-GL (periodical ship technical survey), where we (ship's engineers) have been asked to shown and test all kind of ship's protections and safety checks. When I asked surveyor about my own safety of tools and instruments, he replied that I will have to require from owner, based on wears, fatigue of tools, missing elements of electrical protections and so forth, but nothing specific. That's why I am asking for such reglementation, if there are any to check for free. I have spent an entire day looking on internet and I found nothing specific, only to pay or some sites for buying tools. Thanks everyone

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
8,717
To all that have replied, the TS is trying to find recommendations for testing and replacement of his equipment. He's at least making an effort to be safe in his workplace. Let's try to be helpful, he's not asking us to do homework for him.

As far as I can tell, this would include testing the equipment to confirm that it is still safe to use, i.e. something like hipot or insulation testing. He'll also want recommendations on timing intervals.

I don't personally know what regulations or regulatory agency this might fall under, but my first guess would be OSHA here in the US. Does anyone know what the comparable agency is in Germany?

Secondly, there are "laws," "regulations" "code," and "standards." Laws are, of course free to all citizens in the United States, but might require some digging, e.g., in the Federal Register. Regulations are also usually free and are also usually in the Federal Register. State laws are also available. But sometimes code and more often inspection criteria (Standards) can be expensive as the TS has already found out. See post #6, " I have found regulation BS EN 60100, for which request around 400 USD to download..." $400 is not much. My business paid more than$20,000 per year to subscribe to the most current applicable standards for what we did. That was more than 15 years ago.

Back on topic, if the TS needs the code/standards to ensure the devices used in his job are safe, he should ask his employer. In the US, OSHA might require the employer to provide it. If he just wants to feel more comfortable, then he can get summaries online. If he wants to file a complaint against his employer, and assuming he wants to keep his job, he needs to consider the ramifications of doing that.

#### Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
10,902
As an employed ETO, haven't you already been provided with tools to test insulation? If so, you could test the insulation of the hand tools. If I were in your position I would want to know that the hand tools I was expected to use were safe, regardless of any rules/regulations/test-schedules.

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
As an employed ETO, haven't you already been provided with tools to test insulation? If so, you could test the insulation of the hand tools. If I were in your position I would want to know that the hand tools I was expected to use were safe, regardless of any rules/regulations/test-schedules.
Thanks for your reply. As I see myself alive after 30 years of work in domain, I tink I know how to do my job proper and to pick my tools in a fashion mode. The question was not how I make my job or how I test my tools, but on what ground I can enforce my emplyee (if possibly admiting) to renew them or do I have to purchase my own. Back to begining of topic starting, looks like going in circle.

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10

Secondly, there are "laws," "regulations" "code," and "standards." Laws are, of course free to all citizens in the United States, but might require some digging, e.g., in the Federal Register. Regulations are also usually free and are also usually in the Federal Register. State laws are also available. But sometimes code and more often inspection criteria (Standards) can be expensive as the TS has already found out. See post #6, " I have found regulation BS EN 60100, for which request around 400 USD to download..." $400 is not much. My business paid more than$20,000 per year to subscribe to the most current applicable standards for what we did. That was more than 15 years ago.

Back on topic, if the TS needs the code/standards to ensure the devices used in his job are safe, he should ask his employer. In the US, OSHA might require the employer to provide it. If he just wants to feel more comfortable, then he can get summaries online. If he wants to file a complaint against his employer, and assuming he wants to keep his job, he needs to consider the ramifications of doing that.
Thanks for reply and info. I am in no position to spend these money on a Standard which I cannot enforce to my employer. Plus, this is a Brithish Standard, of which I am not sure my German employer will found usefull, especially since UK is no longer in UE comitee. And looks like I have chosen a very economic one. Thanks again.

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
8,717
I am in no position to spend these money on a Standard which I cannot enforce to my employer.
I suspected that was something you wanted your employer to do to ensure your safety.

In the US we have "whistleblower" laws that provide some protection to employees who file a complaint against their employer. I suspect Germany has something similar. See here.

In the US, I believe your complaint would usually go to OSHA, which is charged with ensuring workplace safety for employees. "Employee" can be a stumbling block. For example, students are not technically employees. And while they do have avenues for recourse, they may not be through OSHA.

As I alluded to above, such protections are not absolute. They do not ensure your anonymity, and they always have a clause to the effect that you cannot be fired "only" because of the complaint. You can still be fired. If you feel your concern is legitimate, you might do some testing based on what you know. Consulting with an expert (say, legal aid) would always be advised before taking on an opponent with many times your personal resources.

As frustrating as it may be, your best course of action may be just to find another job. Privacy laws offer protection, but there are also egregious violations of them by employers.

#### Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
10,902
Even if you find some relevant regulation, what will you do if your employer chooses to ignore it and flout the law?

#### SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
1,796
Report it to your Steward of the Merchant Marine Union

#### zepus169

Joined Feb 17, 2020
10
I suspected that was something you wanted your employer to do to ensure your safety.

In the US we have "whistleblower" laws that provide some protection to employees who file a complaint against their employer. I suspect Germany has something similar. See here.

In the US, I believe your complaint would usually go to OSHA, which is charged with ensuring workplace safety for employees. "Employee" can be a stumbling block. For example, students are not technically employees. And while they do have avenues for recourse, they may not be through OSHA.

As I alluded to above, such protections are not absolute. They do not ensure your anonymity, and they always have a clause to the effect that you cannot be fired "only" because of the complaint. You can still be fired. If you feel your concern is legitimate, you might do some testing based on what you know. Consulting with an expert (say, legal aid) would always be advised before taking on an opponent with many times your personal resources.

As frustrating as it may be, your best course of action may be just to find another job. Privacy laws offer protection, but there are also egregious violations of them by employers.
Thanks for your info. I have read them. Which are also on general terms. No specific information. Like I will sue my lawyer for not representing myself in proper mode. As you said, better to change company.